When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an empty l

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MThomas
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When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an empty l

Post by MThomas »

I've been riding the streets for the better part of the summer. Each time before I ride I go to an empty lot nearby and do 10 figure 8s.
With the exception of highway riding I feel I'm at the point where I'm only going to get so much better riding the streets and I can take on a passenger in an empty lot, at least balancing the bike while at a standstill and doing friction zone exercises but people are telling me I need a lot more experience before a passenger even sits on the bike. Is it really that herculean of a task? I see high school kids on mopeds doing it all the time. How much experience should one have before practicing with a passenger?
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by riceburner »

It's not just the extra weight. That weight is highup on the bike, and affects any lean angle at low speeds, and you'll need to get your acceleration and braking very very smooth - otherwise your passenger will fall backwards, or bang into you all the time.
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by peels »

dont forget, passengers need practice too. for instance, remind them not to shift their weight during a corner. that can be a fun surprise.... or adjust their seating right after you lift your foot. LOL. we almost fell at a stoplight once :)

it takes time. I say go for it... but the parking lot can only teach you so much. Im with riceburner. practice smooth shifting during acceleration (preload shifter up, brief weak clutch, tiny throttle letoff-clicks right in), to avoid the helmet clunk. ANd, as he said, braking. sometimes I get complacent, and brake late.


good luck.
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by riceburner »

oh - re the braking - you'll find that braking needs a LOT more effort than you're used to in order to stop in the same distance from a given speed.

Reason: the system is 1/4 - 1/3rd heavier than you're used to, so has that much more momentum!
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by dandeldesierto »

I'd say take your time and get better at riding solo before attempting to take a passenger. Passengers change the dynamics of riding drastically; your bike goes from being a flick of the wrist dancer to a lumbering beast. Center of gravity, balance, acceleration and braking are all greatly changed. If both rider and passenger are inexperienced, things can "go south" rapidly.
I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but in my world motorcycles are a personal vehicle; a solo ride. I can enjoy riding with one or two other people who are on their own bike, but I don't want anyone sitting behind me on mine. As far as group rides go.... well, I think if you want to ride around with eight or ten (or forty) of your buds then buy a van or a bus, get a designated driver, open the windows and drink a couple of cold ones while rollin' down the road.
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by riceburner »

dandeldesierto wrote:I'd say take your time and get better at riding solo before attempting to take a passenger. Passengers change the dynamics of riding drastically; your bike goes from being a flick of the wrist dancer to a lumbering beast. Center of gravity, balance, acceleration and braking are all greatly changed. If both rider and passenger are inexperienced, things can "go south" rapidly.
I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but in my world motorcycles are a personal vehicle; a solo ride. I can enjoy riding with one or two other people who are on their own bike, but I don't want anyone sitting behind me on mine. As far as group rides go.... well, I think if you want to ride around with eight or ten (or forty) of your buds then buy a van or a bus, get a designated driver, open the windows and drink a couple of cold ones while rollin' down the road.

It's a valid opinion.

Also worth bearing in mind is that a lot of bikes are only partially designed to take pillions. Expecially sportsbikes. BMW are one of the few manufacturers that design bikes for the road with more thought to pillions.

Easiest way to check how good a bike is for pillions is to look at the relationship between the pillion seat and the rear wheel. If the seat is forward of the wheel spindle, it'll take pillions better than if the seat is behind the wheel spindle.
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by MThomas »

I have two disparate persons willing to be a passenger.
One is a former gymnast who may break 100lbs if soaking wet and pregnant.
The other is a fat woman.
Initially I figured the fat woman would be the better choice since she could "weigh down" the bike providing more stability.
Based on what I'm reading here/researching, the former gymnast with greater nimbleness who can move spine-to-spine with me may be the better choice.
Who would you choose for initial passenger rides?
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by peels »

interesting disparity. cant help you. depends on your personal relationship to either. :lol:

Just practice with any sized pillion....really. Just whoever it is, needs to hold still while you corner.

brake sooner, accelerate and shift more smoothly.
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by riceburner »

The pillion should be a 'passive' part of the whole package.

DO NOT tell them to lean.

JUST tell them to hold on, and maintain their position relative to you and the bike.

ie - they should be luggage - NOT another rider.
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by Keppelj »

My wife used to ride with me and we both enjoyed it. If it's fun for one, carving along a mountain road, why not for two? You can talk some even w/o electronics. No squirming around is right. As an experienced rider/racer friend once told me, in terms of movement you need your pillion to be a "sack of potatoes" - inert. It's a bit risky picking up random hitch-hikers!
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by MThomas »

referencing an earlier observation above, again I saw a couple teens on a moped that didn't appear to be experienced drivers/riders but had no issues for the few blocks that we were going in the same road. At a stoplight I asked how much practice it took to be able to take on a rider and they looked at me with a "what is he talking about" look and said we just hopped on and took off.

this leads me to ask/wonder if the smaller the bike the easier it is to take on a passenger and the larger the bike the more practice it takes. I would think the opposite since a larger bike means more weight/stability but the evidence is pointing otherwise ... ?
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by peels »

MThomas wrote:referencing an earlier observation above, again I saw a couple teens on a moped that didn't appear to be experienced drivers/riders but had no issues for the few blocks that we were going in the same road. At a stoplight I asked how much practice it took to be able to take on a rider and they looked at me with a "what is he talking about" look and said we just hopped on and took off.

this leads me to ask/wonder if the smaller the bike the easier it is to take on a passenger and the larger the bike the more practice it takes. I would think the opposite since a larger bike means more weight/stability but the evidence is pointing otherwise ... ?
Biggest thing I learned. 2up vs 1up. 2up you will notice very little change at highway speed. But the slow speed handling is where the struggle is. Youll find the bike wants to wobble sooner, and try to fall. Needs more speed so the wheels gyro effect can counteract the extra weight. Newtons 1st law and all. objects in motion will stay in motion blahblahblah..... :)

big bike vs small bike for 2up argument. MAYBE. but my personal experience is opposite...bigger bike is better. Adding weight to a bigger bike has less effect. RIding 2up on my FZ1 was a chore at slow in town speeds, but decent once we got rolling in the road. The transition between the two was awkward. THE beemer is better in both these respects. IT is a bigger bike.

same thing can be said for trucks. adding 2000lbs of decking wood hanging out the bed to my 1998 Nissan Frontier was a HUGELY Different undertaking(and dumb) than with my current truck with a v8, double the weight and quadruple the payload. But I still drive it as though anything bad could still happen.

there's a saying in aviation as well that works here. don't fly behind the plane, fly in front of it. IE: dont wait until youre going too fast or too slow to adjust, it could be too late.

I honestly might say were overthinking it a LITTLE bit here. get out there and try it!
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by windy »

You seem to be an apprehensive rider. Do not carry a passenger !
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by riceburner »

MThomas wrote:referencing an earlier observation above, again I saw a couple teens on a moped that didn't appear to be experienced drivers/riders but had no issues for the few blocks that we were going in the same road. At a stoplight I asked how much practice it took to be able to take on a rider and they looked at me with a "what is he talking about" look and said we just hopped on and took off.

this leads me to ask/wonder if the smaller the bike the easier it is to take on a passenger and the larger the bike the more practice it takes. I would think the opposite since a larger bike means more weight/stability but the evidence is pointing otherwise ... ?

On a small light bike, there's less overall mass to manage.
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by MThomas »

peels wrote:I honestly might say were overthinking it a LITTLE bit here. get out there and try it!
That pretty much sums it up.

Took a coworker on the bike last night, a fireplug at 5'0"/140lbs who'd never been a passenger before.
I wouldn't rank this as a difficult task at all. Accelerating and braking were slower and greater concentration was required when turning but was able to make 90 degree turns from a stop, e.g. right turn at a light, with not much difficulty.
Took literally no more than five laps in the empty lot to get to the point of being on the street.

Believe it or not the hardest part was when they climbed on using the footpeg the bike was tougher to hold straight up. After looking into proper mounting I'm seeing that people have the passenger mount while the kickstand is in place then bring the bike up straight.
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by MThomas »

Last night, different passenger, about 5'6" 140lbs, no difficulties. Just adjusting for the extra weight.
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by Sunbeemer »

I've had "good and bad" pillion riders, and it makes a surprising difference in how you can control the bike.
My regular pillion rider is not a motorcyclist and doesn't try to control the bike in any way, and this is good. She just hangs on to me and trusts my control inputs.
And I've taken motorcyclists for rides and they were the worst pillion riders, trying to control lean angles, making it really difficult to steer.

You can (and should) give them some advice before they climb on that will help you both enjoy the ride more. BTW, this is covered in "Proficient Motorcycling" :)
Let the passenger know that they should dress for the conditions, which usually means adding an extra layer of clothing to account for windchill.
They should also be wearing appropriate safety gear, including gloves and at least closed-toed shoes or much better, boots, and nothing that can flail around and get caught in the wheel (like long coats, skirts, etc.).
They should be instructed how to mount after you by stepping on the left passenger footpeg and swinging their right leg over the seat while you are standing up firmly holding the bike between your legs.
They should not get on until you tell them to after you have the bike stable between your legs.
You should tell them not to put their feet down when the bike comes to a stop. They shouldn't do anything but sit quietly until it's time to dismount.
Tell them not to dismount until you tell them to, which again, is after you are standing and have the bike stable between your legs. Then they can get off by reversing the way they climbed on.

During the ride, tell them to hold on to you. This helps keep them on the bike and doing exactly what you are doing (leaning the same, etc.)
You can also work out some non-verbal communications, but these can be distracting to you while you're trying to concentrate on steering, so try to limit pointing and poking to important messages (like "Oh! look at the pretty DEER!", or "I need to PEE!", etc.).
When I see a bump coming I let my rider know by bobbing my head so they can take some of the shock with their legs.

It's important to limit distractions to your concentration on the road ahead at all times, and having a rider aboard can be big one. It takes extra attention to operate a bike safely when riding two-up. The bike already handles differently, and your rider can move unexpectedly and throw the bike off balance, and you have to be prepared for that. Their helmet may bang into yours when you brake hard, which can momentarily distract you at the worst possible moment from the very reason you are braking hard (to avoid a collision). Be aware of the responsibility having a rider on board entails and use more care and more braking distance, which requires more attention.
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by MThomas »

I pretty much just told them to glue yourself to me, spine to spine, and the three of us (me you and bike) all move as one unit, so just relax and move with us
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by peels »

yes to sunbeemer.



They should not get on until you tell them to after you have the bike stable between your legs.

this is really the only difficulty that took awhile to get down. Also....She would get on, its a bit wobbly, but then Id relax, get ready to sit THEN she would start adjusting her seating. Thats bad... now I wait, and ask if shes ready before sitting.
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Re: When is it time to practice taking a passenger in an emp

Post by MThomas »

FWIW I was buying a helmet the other day and the salesperson, who rides/races opined that because the r1150r is a heavy bike its stable and therefore easier to take on a passenger. this obviously conflicts with the lighter bike=less overall weight to move=easier theory. only way for me to really find out is to try it on a lighter bike. problem is , the only bike I think looks better aesthetically than the r1150r is the x diavel s but he told me that thing approaches 20k cost-wise and that's way out of my budget
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