Spline REPLACEMENT Time (high res pics added)

[CycleRob]

Just inserting the input shaft into the clutch is not ensuring a good axial data point. That shaft can wag around. Also, the clutch was clamped by the pressure plate into it's present location as it hung off the end of the input shaft, giving it questionable at best perfect axial alignment with the crankshaft centerline. Too many variables to be confident enough to make offset dowels and elongate bellhousing holes. For that you'd need to go all the way to the source, which is the crankshaft centerline.

Yes, there is some wear on my bike's clutch disc female spline, and a dealer trade in for a new (belt drive) F800ST will cure that before next year.

.

[awagnon]

The thought occurred to me that I could take measurements of the bearing sleeve relative to the mounting holes on my transmission case and have Bob's order me another case. I could then take measurements of the replacement and decide if I truly want it. I would explain my intent before ordering.

My mechanic said he couldn't tell if the drive shaft of the engine or the input shaft of the transmission was out of spec's since there are no published normals for either one. I recall a post from about a year or 18 months ago where someone tried several new transmission front pieces and none of them aligned. At least for his bike, it suggested the crankshaft was the problem. I don't recall what he finally did.

On my post about floating the transmission front piece, you would have to use the crankshaft as a reference point. Terry can't loan his measuring rig, because much of it was borrowed. He will loan the rod he places in the crank shaft to mount the dial indicator, since it was made for him.

I agree with CycleRob. I'll probably fix mine with a trade-in for a NON-SHAFT bike, even though I like the convenience of the shaft. I had a Kawasaki Vulcan with a shaft and many friends with Japanese bikes with shafts. I am not aware of spline problems on any of these bikes.

[oiasghar]

Andy,

I have emailed Terry asking for his permission to post the link to his photos on his Flickr account. Hopefully he will not have an objection and either Terry or myself can then post the link here. It really clears a lot of things up.

Regards,

Obaid.

[oiasghar]

....

Yes, there is some wear on my bike's clutch disc female spline, and a dealer trade in for a new (belt drive) F800ST will cure that before next year.

.

Hehe, I just beat you to it....

[oiasghar]

Got a quick reply from Terry; its okay to post the link to his photos so here is a link to Terry's flickr photos on how he measured the alignment or rather misalignment....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35067320@N07/

[AndyRR]

Got a quick reply from Terry; its okay to post the link to his photos so here is a link to Terry's flickr photos on how he measured the alignment or rather misalignment....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35067320@N07/

THANKS!!

I was having trouble picturing the dial indicator setup due to the limited clearance. Out then back in. He obviously spent a lot of time on that setup - and as he said, finding someone to make those dowels is going to be tough. I really want a scissor jack setup to get the bike off the ground like that. I would rather use that money on a fix like yours though. I HATE going to Bob's BMW because all the nice bikes that they have on display are incredibly tempting. F800ST, R1200R, K1200R!! - I like them all. What makes it worse is that I have the money saved, but with the current home undergoing a remodel and breaking ground on a new home in a couple weeks, I know I can't spent it there.
I need two more years out of this bike. Throwing the bike back together as is with the new parts should get me those two years, so I'm tempted.

[AndyRR]

Measure, measure, measure.
I fab'd a measuring rig. It's not the prettiest thing I've made, but it works well. I would be happy to lend it out once I'm done. I hope to never need it again.


This one was version 2.01. The first version was crap and gave me very high (but consistent!) readings due to it's flex. Lesson learned that consistency does not necessarily = accuracy. This one worked well when press fit and a little better after welding. I measured a total reading of .015". Left to right was zero every time, the mis-alignment is in the vertical axis. I wish it wasn't because now I won't be happy with my readings until I tip the bike on it's side and get the same reading. The measurements are consistent with flexing downwards so I want to be 100% sure that gravity isn't pulling the rig:


I measured the flywheel for warping and found it to be within .005". Not perfect, but considering it's size, perhaps OK? I measured it next to each of the 6 screw holes that mounts it to the outer housing.



I also measured across the engine housing to the toothed section of the flywheel in a criss cross pattern. This was a difficult measurement to make and the tolerance was within the error of duplicated readings at the same point so the error is slight if any. This suggests that the rear engine case is perpendicular to the crankshaft and the the clutch housing is OK provided the .005" is within tolerance.

I haven't yet come up with a good way to do similar tests to the trans case.

Next I'm off to find a machinist to make me some offset dowels. While I'm at it, I'm going to see what it costs to make an improved input shaft.

[sweatmark]

Next I'm off to find a machinist to make me some offset dowels. While I'm at it, I'm going to see what it costs to make an improved input shaft.

Please let us know about results of your local improved transmission input shaft option. Lengthening the input shaft splines is key, according to my uninformed gut. Consider the multi-millions of single-plate/dry-clutch/diaphragm-spring drivetrains used in the automotive world, for which the clutch hub/input shaft spline wear problem is nearly non-existent. Brings up questions about the concentricity of all those flywheels, clutch hubs, and transmissions, and whether a fit spec of <0.0015 generally applies to hundreds of combinations of component manfucturers.

[dirtroaddave]

Perfect thread, Can anyone help with how I remove the trans cover, I have it on my bench and the manual says to heat up the shafts? Now I am litttle little lost....
be gentle its my first post here :-)

[AndyRR]

Perfect thread, Can anyone help with how I remove the trans cover, I have it on my bench and the manual says to heat up the shafts? Now I am litttle little lost....
be gentle its my first post here :-)

Welcome - you've really jumped in with both feet. Lost your splines?

You really need the manual if you don't have one. There's a free download somewhere. If you look at page 1 of this thread, you'll see that the three gear shafts and bearings remained with the front half of the trans. Look at the back of the trans and you can see the three circles where the bearings are housed. These three points have to be heated to the specified temp(I forget what it is off-hand). You've already heated the pivot bolts, so you have a heat gun. Assuming you also have one of those non-contact thermometers?
Ideally you have help here because you'll have to hold the trans up in the air by the front half with one hand (you've drained the oil, right?) and while the bearing mounts are hot - hit the bottom half of the trans away from the front half using a heavy non-marring hammer. If you have a buddy hold the trans and you hit it, it's would be easier - although I did it solo each time (yes, I did this twice).

It's the same deal getting the front half of the case off of the three shafts. This time, you'll heat the front half of the trans and hold the three shafts with one hand while beating with the other. DO NOT HIT THE MATING SURFACE. I know how incredibly tempting it is as it is the only good place to hit, but just don't do it. This is especially hard in a cold garage as the case cools quickly.

Good luck.

[Shoganai]

Perfect thread, Can anyone help with how I remove the trans cover, I have it on my bench and the manual says to heat up the shafts? Now I am litttle little lost....
be gentle its my first post here :-)