HELP....'04 1150R running TERRIBLE

[TimH]

Hi All....
I'll try to keep this as short as possible but include details I think relevant. 04 R1150R....51k miles....Do my own maintenance...valves adjust every 6k along with oil change....TB sync seemingly more often than at oil change interval. I'll describe immediate symptom 1st.....
Coming home from work I could hear the valves making noise , shifter side..(which I've noticed doesn't seem to hold adjustment very well)(on the highway, full face helmet, earplugs...) Let the bike sit overnight, drove truck to work ( arrhhhhhhhhhggggg) came home, pulled head cover checked adjustment and exhaust pair ( front) really out of adjustment..intake pair perfect .so...bring back to correctness(?) put back together and threw Twinmax on it...( which I'd used a few days before because idle was sorta rough)...adjust zero up to MAX sensitivity,back off sensitivity, start bike...which then ran very rough at idle and all in between , run sensitivity back to max and the needle is all the way to the left and flickering as it would around zero....WTF??....so I turn bike off , check zero and it's right on.....back off sensitivity, start bike , slowly bring up sensitivity to max( still as described above) and attempt to adjust left TB BBAS...unable to effect any change in needle....SO.....I get my book, bring them( both TB's) back to what they were prior to 1st time I'd done a sync, no change to needle....no amount of adjust on either side is altering twinmax needle position.....
Now bike is hard to keep running, and not using the meter at all cannot get the bike to idle at any near level of nice. Not using the TWINMAX 'cause I thought maybe it's messed up....OK that's immediate symptom.
I have noticed that I seem to have to play with rough idle condition about every 1k miles.....very minor to bring back in
I replaced all 4 plugs at 39K, alt belt at 42k, stick coil(shifter side ) at about 44k, and did oil change, tb adjust , and valve adjust at 48k....
I've not done any troubleshooting in regards to stick coil, as symptom is totally different....
......just got home from being out of town for work for a week and hope I haven't ommited anything...bike hasn't been ridden since 9/24
Any help or thoughts very much appreciated
Thanks , Tim

[TimH]

my baad...bike hasn't been ridden since 10/24.........

[R1150Rclean]

my baad...bike hasn't been ridden since 10/24.........

How old is the Twinmax, how old is the battery in the Twinmax? I keep the battery in the Frig. in an air tight container between uses. You could take the Twinmax to a cycle shop and check it on a "good" bike and see if it is working properly. Without that working right, you are blind.

Of course, you could screw both idle screws in all the way and then set them to 1 1/2 turns, that should get you close, maybe? If you still have a problem, maybe the throttle position sensor is off/bad. Then you need a shop with a Moditec (sp?) to check for error codes and to reset it.

As for the valve adjustment, I would clean the valve adjuster screw and nut (nut removed) with brake cleaner before readjusting.

[TimH]

How old is the Twinmax, how old is the battery in the Twinmax?
The Twinmax came with the bike. I bought it used in 07 with 6k miles on it. I'm pretty sure it had never been used before I got it. I know when the battery starts to wear the readings can be erratic ....battery was swapped with brand new when symptom occurred......

[CycleRob]

Coming home from work I could hear the valves making noise , shifter side..(which I've noticed doesn't seem to hold adjustment very well)(on the highway, full face helmet, earplugs...) Let the bike sit overnight, drove truck to work ( arrhhhhhhhhhggggg) came home, pulled head cover checked adjustment and exhaust pair ( front) really out of adjustment..intake pair perfect .so...bring back to correctness(?)

I am concerned by the "really out of adjustment" description. It leads me to believe that the wrong feeler gauge was used -or- piston TDC compression stroke was not correctly set. That would cause a huge error in the clearance settings. About how many turns (or part of one) of the rockerarm screw adjuster were required to get the correct setting?

You are not far away at all. Less than 30 miles. PM me your home phone, best time to call and we'll resolve the problem over the phone.

.

[boxermania]

TimH

pulled head cover checked adjustment and exhaust pair ( front) really out of adjustment..intake pair perfect

The question is: Were the valves too tight or too loose, as each condition, outside using the wrong feeler gauge, has potentially different sources.

The good thing is that CycleRob is close by, retired and idle, loves to wrench as well as a good dinner……the solution should be within reach.

Good luck

[towerworker]

I wish I lived that close to CycleRob!!

[TimH]

Rob...sent PM earlier....hope you received
Tim

[wncbmw]

The best advice any of us could give you is . . . get Rob over to the house. Your bike could not be in better hands.

[jcridge]

Tim,

The TB adjustment or lack of, sounds like you have clogged air passages. I have seen this many times before on fuel injected engines, especially K's. What do the primary sparkplugs tell you? Is there a difference between L&R, I'm assuming so by what you are describing. is the left side really rich or lean? Stick Coils, you only replaced one. I would be thinking about replacing both stick coils and all 4 plugs if anything look to be ignition related.

The valves coming out of adjustment sounds odd. Have you found anything with that yet? I would think resolving the valve adjustment issue first would help put things into perspective.

Many factors go into a good tune, and sometimes you need to to a step back and look at the big picture and not get caught-up in the seemingly endless details. A good diagnosis is everything, but is sometimes hard to do without having a known good part on hand, so I know the frustration of the rider / technician.

It's after the fact, but once you have the engine running just the way you want it, mark all the setting with paint, and write down the amount of turns out and any other information you may need. I have been tuning engines for over 30 years, and have seen almost everything. One thing I can say, is a properly tuned engine stays tuned until one or more of its components wear out or an outside factor is introduced ( bad fuel).

95% of all carburetor problems are ignition related...( Lucas) Just an old saying that still rings true today.

2 cents
John

[CycleRob]

I met Tim 14 miles away at the huge QT fuel station in Oakwood GA. It was easier for him to find my house following me back and I just wanted to go for a ride, meeting him about half way. At my house, right away Tim hooked up his TwinMax, started the engine and it went full scale left needle. The Right side BBAS had no effect whatsoever. Odd. I'm thinking the worst . . . . like a plugged air bypass channel or the past owner adjusting the blue painted right side throttle stop screw to synch the idle. We even removed the intake tubes to see if it was open too far. Then I found the problem. The TB synch was waaaaay off, like 4 turns too much throttle on the right side cable adjuster. It was holding the right side butterfly part open, making the engine sound like a twingle. You could hear one cylinder hitting heavy at idle speed. That uneven power cycling is likely what caused the camchain to whip about and make a racket. I should have caught this earlier as tapping the throttle stops with the twistgrip sounded like only the left side was hitting. It was hard to say. Being that a TB synch was just recently done, I discounted anything could be wrong and then mistakenly ignored what the bike was telling me. Looking in the dim confines at the right side throttle stop screw it looked like there was a gap there and a piece of paper confirmed it was big. There was no slack in the right side exposed throttle cable wire. The right side cable was holding the throttle butterfly slightly open at idle. What caused this? A broken TwinMax hose, a quarter inch (6mm) from the engine side end. That huge leak inspired the wrong TB cable adjustment, and when you think about it (full left needle), also going the wrong way. Oh well. Sh!t happens.

From this point, with my long standing lack of enthusiasm for the TwinMax, I dug out my 20+ year old Motion Pro Mercury Carb Styx and hooked it up to get it close enough to use the water stick. It's quicker visually in use and always more accurate than a TwinMax. Start the engine and instantly there was a clear picture of what is and where it had to go. Tim dialed in the idle, then I set the right cable adjuster for the on throttle reading. Finally, we exchanged the Mercury atmospheric stick for the even more accurate differential water manometer. Engine start . . . . Wow. There's a ~3" (76mm) error at idle and over 2x that on the throttle. Same jobs again. Both were dialed very close, which for the hyper-sensitive differential water manometer is water columns 1" (25mm) or less apart. You could hear the perfect balance in the exhaust notes at any throttle setting . . . the smooth sound of 2 big instruments playing a perfect symphony.

Sweet.

.

[boxermania]

Kudos to Robbie as I knew he would prevail.....I'm sure Tim also learned a lot about his bike from this experience.

I love it when there is a happy ending to the story, once again and as I always preach the single, most significant calibration that will result in a good running boxer engine is the sync' of the TB's.

[riceburner]

Good to know the problem was found.


I was going to suggest checking the threads on the throttle adjusters - mine have worn on the right side and I had to bodge the system somewhat in order to get the adjuster working on some solid threads.

[TimH]

Hi All....
This is my 1st opportunity to get back on the board since I meet up with Rob yesterday.....All I can say is WOW.....He is "Da Man"....He quickly diagnosed the problem,( the GD hose for the TWINMAX... I was SO embarrassed) ....and except for one item I still can't explain....most of the total out of adjust occurred as a result of my messing with the TB cable and BBAS' trying to get some difference in twinmax reading and not paying close enough attention to what I was doing, and not being in a position( no water manometer) to correct as I ran headlong down the path of blind miss-adjustment ....I couldn't believe I never thought to validate the hoses.......SOAB

Learning Experience.....Big Time.......

I do SO APPRECIATE Rob taking time on his Sunday afternoon to meet and work with me. Unbelievable guy
The TB sync is spot on and the bike is running so sweet......
and thanks to everyone who took the time to respond

Tim

[Boxer]

Hey Tim....Rob likes pizza!