The R1200R as a first bike.

[Kekoa]

Hi everyone;

I'm proud to say that I've passed the MSF course and have my motorcycle license. At 39 years old, my very first and only experience with a motorcycle is with the loaner bike (250cc) at the MSF course. The past several months I've been searching and researching motorcycles, both on the internet and at dealerships. After numerous visits to several dealerships, I've finally narrowed my bike down to the R1200R. I feel really comfortable on the R1200R. I'm 6' tall / 32" inseam / 225 lbs, and sitting on this bike I felt like it was the perfect size; my legs had a comfortable bend, arm reach was perfect, and my fingers had no problem reaching the brake, clutch and controls. I like the weight of the bike and that it's not bulky like some Japanese cruisers.

For the first year, I plan on using the R1200R just to increase my motorcycling skills, which would be a lot of riding around the neighborhood and parking lots. Then eventually in time I will use it to commute to work and weekend rides with co-workers/friends.

My only concern is the 1170cc and 109 hp, is it too much for a beginner? A test drive would probably let me know if I could handle this bike; but what are your thoughts on this?

Thanks.

[Caroanbill]

... 1170cc and 109 hp, is it too much for a beginner?

Given you're 39, 6' and have done the riding courses, if you can manage it in the test ride, you'll be OK - that is, if you can temper your right wrist .
ABS and ASC would be very useful options - and they're both good for resale (hard to sell a BMW without ABS, that's why the non-ABS bikes at dealers are cheap).

but ..

I plan on using the R1200R just to increase my motorcycling skills .. a lot of riding around the neighborhood and parking lots.

An R1200R is a lotta bike for toodling* around the neighbourhood. I have a weebike for that (but I'm rather short .. only 6' in my dreams ) - maybe a smaller, less expensive bike would be easier. And an R1200R would be ineffective at toodling* because an R1200R will sing to you about open roads, mountain rides, runs by the ocean (cue strings, cut abruptly after 30 mins unless you get a seat fix) ...

and ... ATGATT .. but you know that part. It takes a looong time to grow back skin.

I'm quite a timid rider, and got a HUGE Suzuki GS750 at a first real bike - I thought it would breathe fire and spit me off the back as it reared up and away, but it turns out bikes only go as fast as you ride them .. that bike was just fine and took me over hill and dale until a daydreaming farmer reshaped it (and me) on his truck ..

*toodling is any urban meander, but the best kind sorta waft on the aroma of good espresso ...

[dderrig]

Have no fear my son I am 51 and the R1200R is my first bike also! I can't imagine a bike being easier to handle!!!!! I am 6' 185lbs and find that this bike is easy to manuver in tight quarters and unless you abuse the power (and it's there for the abusing) you will be fine.

I didn't want to go through the usuall progression you hear about of small to larger bike (Though it's not bad advise) so almost 6,000 miles and 10 months later I know I made the right choice.

Everybodys skill levels are different on 2 wheels and I do/did alot (and I do mean alot) of bicycle riding (road bicycle riding) which helped me understand dealing with traffic while being the smallest thing on the road from a safety perspective. Having that knowledge and then riding to work almost every day in moderate not too crazy traffic helped me tremendously.

Good luck!

Dave

[Rocket]

In my view , you are very lucky if the R1200R is your first "big" bike. Actually, it is OK for a beginner since it is easy to handle and has no quirky traits.

However, my advice is to build up your road riding experience very carefully and gradually. You need to get out on some open roads, not just around parking lots. Slow speed stuff is OK but doesn't teach you the hazards of other drivers not seeing you, crap on the road around bends, gravel at road junctions, slippy manhole covers and white lines in the wet.

It's not so much the power of the bike you need to worry about but your lack of experience in road conditions. You just have to take it steady eg avoid the temptation to "commit" yourself too fast into bends and always assume that the car waiting to pull out at the junction hasn't seen you.

Simple illustration: a pencil held upright in you hand, at arms length would fully obscure a bike approaching you from 100 yards away - thats why car drivers often don't see bikes approaching, they glance and miss you (hence lights on is a must)

Take it steady , and the R1200R will be your dream come true.

[Hanno]

Hi everyone;

My only concern is the 1170cc and 109 hp, is it too much for a beginner? A test drive would probably let me know if I could handle this bike; but what are your thoughts on this?

Thanks.

Hello,

excellent choice you did...
I can more or less say, that r1200r was my first bike too. I did have several others before, at the age 15..17, but after a 15 year gap I generally had to learn to ride a motorcycle again. This is amazing, how some skills can be forgotten..

anyhow, after first week riding I was completely sure, that no motorcycle should have less power then this, to be pleasing and enjoyable to ride.

My collegue, for example, had Suzuki GSX1000R sportsbike as the first ride, ( with power commander equipped ). This one indeed felt a little, emm... less easy for me..

regards,
Hanno

[Motorcycle_Girl]

Hey if you have the $$$ to have the R1200R as your first, more power to you...personally as an instructor I get asked by my students all the time what bike should they buy as a first bike...

Keep in mind in Canada our motorcycle insurance is much more expensive than in the US too...

I usually recommend that they find a bike that is 400 to 750 CC and not new...(style of bike not as important as how it fits...but I do try to steer people towards something with a standard seating position) When learning to ride you will make mistakes and you will probably drop it. Starting with something older generally costs less for inital purchase and insurance. If you drop and scratch a $2000 to $4000 bike you can live with the odd dent and scratch...it is a bit heartbreaking if you do that with a new bike that cost you much more.

What if you find out that you really don't like riding (I find it hard to believe - but, yes that happens) You will take a big hit on the resale of a new bike but you will most likely get exactly what you paid for when reselling an older bike.

The other reason that I tell people not to go for a new bike is that when you start you really don't know what style of riding you will be doing...and you really don't know much about how a bike fits until you ride for a while.

If you start with an older "beginner" bike and spend a couple of seasons riding it...then start taking advantage of test rides that are offered by the different manufacturers you will really begin to see what bikes are out there that suit you and your riding style.

Just a few things to think about....

Celeste

[NeilS]

Well said, Celeste. I also tell my students the most important factors in choosing a first bike are 1) the fit and 2) whether it's suited for the kind of riding they think they want to do. And I emphasize that they're buying their first bike, not (necessarily) their last bike.

[papasong]

I'm 45 years old; 5'8"; 160 lbs. I took the MSF course a long time ago to get my license.
I've only been riding for less than 3 years.

Personally, the R1200R would have been a mistake for me as my first bike.

I purchased an F800ST as my first bike, and that was awesome. I would have kept it, if I could have afforded two.
The F800ST has a lower center of gravity, excellent handling, already has some fairing on it, better gas mileage. It was a great first bike for me, and I'm glad I had two seasons on that before I moved up to my R1200R.

I am really happy with my R1200R, but it was wise of me to start with a smaller bike. And actually, the F800ST is only marginally smaller (weight, wheelbase, etc.). In terms of size, the major difference is how the weight is distributed.

Best,
Jeff

[LumpyCam]

I wouldn't start with the R1200R, but put a poster of it on the wall so you know what to shoot for Better to start with something small, ride it closer to its limit, then step up to the R. If the R is your first ride you will always be timid about it's limits and your limits, and probably end up way more conservative than you need to be.

As a big and powerful bike even little mistakes are amplified, and can cause grief. Is the pavement sloped where you park? Careful putting your foot down. Sharp parking lot turn? Watch the oversteer. Highway corners? Balance the lean with the counter-steer. Starting the bike? That neutral light might be <i>false</i> and eject the bike from under you. Pant leg catch on the peg as you roll to a stop? Yep, you're going down. There are just so many little things to learn, some trivial, others catastrophic.

I went from a F650CS to a R1150R to an R1200R and it was an excellent progression. Best part is, if you buy a good sample of each you won't loose much on resale. I rode the F650CS for 10,000km and sold it for only $200 less than I paid!

That said, it doesn't mean you have to wait <b>long</b> to build up to the R1200R. Buy a junker to ride for 3 months then step up to the real-deal.

[papasong]

As a big and powerful bike even little mistakes are amplified, and can cause grief...

Amen.
My F800ST could go very fast, but I never felt like it was "riding me".
The extra *everything* about the R1200R often has me pulling back from that edge of feeling like I'm being ridden by my bike.
Which tells me that I have a lot more "headroom" to go on this bike - that I clearly have so much more to learn, as a rider, and that I'm not going to outgrow this bike any time soon.

[xcell1600]

Great comments. I was in the same boat as you. I am 50 and recently completed a MSF class. I did purchase an R1200R. One advantage of the BMW is the dealer will let you test ride bikes. I tested the F800 and R1200R. I also had an opportunity to drive some bikes owned by my friends (Harley and Honda)

All the bikes are very powerful. The F800 had me leaning too far forward. The R1200R felt very comfortable. I am 5:10" and 200 lbs.

The powerband of the engines are very different. The boxer has much more low end torque. I believe the weight of the bike is as much a factor as the engine displacement. The weight of these two BMW's are very close. The Ris ligher than many other bikes with much smaller engines.

Any bike will get you into trouble. I love my R and am happy with my choice.

[websterize]

My only concern is the 1170cc and 109 hp, is it too much for a beginner? A test drive would probably let me know if I could handle this bike; but what are your thoughts on this?

I passed the MSF Basic Rider Course last March and bought my bike in April. I commute to downtown D.C. during the week and take long rides to Maryland horse country on the weekend. Last May I followed the trails that Chairman Eilenberger blazed in the twisties of West Virginia, where, as he says, there is no straight road. At 4,000 miles today, I learn something on each outing.

I feel fortunate that the R1200R is my first motorcycle. The way I see it, life ain't a dress rehearsal, so why not go for it.

[Kekoa]

What a great community! All the comments are very helpful and shed some light on things I didn't think about. The decision is to find a used motorcycle in the 500cc - 800cc range (cruiser/standard bike). The R1200R is something I will come back to in the near future. My son is interested in getting his license also, so the motorcycle I learn on now will be something he can use too.

I usually discount any motorcycles with the sport bike fairings, but today I visited a local BMW dealer and sat on a used 2008 F800ST, I was surprised that the seating position was sit up and not lean forward. This bike had over 11,000 miles; is that high for a one year old bike? There was also a 2004 R1150R with over 13,000 miles on it, the previous owner had dropped it and there's corrosion on the engine hardware (rust) and forks (galvanic/paint bubble); which leads me to believe the bike was not garaged or not taken cared of very well??

I also forgot to add that I'm an avid mountain biker (dual suspension bicycle), downhill and a little cross-country. I found that a lot of the steering, braking, and body lean techniques helped me in the MSF training. For example, I was able to do the figure eight (U-turn) course without much problem because I was used to turning something on two wheels at low speeds and my body knew which way to lean, I only had to learn how to translate peddling power with the throttle/clutch combination. If anyone is wondering, I never dropped the loaner bike at the MSF training

Thanks everyone for your helpful comments.

[ShinySideUp]

We DO have a pretty wonderful community here! Here's my $.08 worth (that 2 cents adjusted for inflation):

I've been riding for 40 years and have had a bunch of (increasingly larger) bikes. The R12R is one of the easiest to ride that I have ever been on.

I rode the F800ST on an Alps tour for 2000 miles in 2 weeks. The seating position felt good at first; hated it by the end of the tour. (33" inseam put my knees in my armpits and too much weight on my arthritic hands).

Came home and bought the R12R after the test ride and never looked back. Handles WAY better than the F800 in my opinion. I guess I disagree with the member who says the center of gravity is lower with the 800. My feeling is that with the horizontal cylinders, since 1923, the R12R has got it dialed in just right. This machine is balanced and well-mannered under almost all circumstances. I look and it goes. No fighting.

If you're set on the F800, I'd guess the 11K miles is just a bit over average for a 1 year old bike, probably owned by an enthusiast instead of poser. But in no way is it too many miles for this bike, providing the price is attractive and in line with the mileage and overall condition. Service records?

If you're interested in the R12R, I'd steer clear of any R1150, not matter what condition, after reading all the comments on this forum by those who've drunk our R12R cool-aid and migrated from the R1150. In short: much lighter, more nimble, balance shaft cuts hand-numbing vibrations, better brakes, etc etc.

I support your decision to go with a cheaper, smaller bike for a while. (And the longer you keep it, the more plentiful and cheaper will be the used R2R's available to you.) The fact that you didn't drop the bike during the MSF course is a good thing... but it doesn't mean much when dealing with day-to-day riding in that world beyond the parking lot that happens to be filled with cars and trucks driven by angry, drunk, drugged, distracted-in-at-least-six-ways, homicidal maniacs. It's like taking your very useful off-road bicycle experience and becoming a bicycle messenger in downtown New York City. New game.

Sooner or later, a kick stand WILL sink in the soft dirt. You'll forget to put the stand down because you're super tired. A driver will back out of her driveway, run over the curb, and knock your bike over. A driver in front of you while you're both waiting for a red light will all of sudden back straight into you while going for a parking place she passed by. A man in a pickup truck stopped behind you at a red light will take his foot off the brake and his truck's automatic transmission will creep the 6000 lb. truck quietly and inexorably into you and knock both you and the bike over. DAMHIK! Real world stuff is best beaten into the bodywork of an older bike.

Since 2/3 of all bike accidents are the fault of car drivers, THAT's where most of your attention needs to be, and a smaller, comfortable bike, whose paint job you're not concerned with, is one less thing to divert your consciousness. 100% responsible for 100% of what goes around you 100% of the time. As a Harley rider, 75 years old, told me: If a meteor falls out of the sky and kills you while you're riding, it was your fault. OK, off of soapbox.

I'd advise any new rider (like your son) to peruse http://www.ride2die.com to read the safety information, the safety study statistics, and, yes, the grim pictures in order to more accurately assess the risk he's considering taking on, apart from the warm fuzzies of buying in to the motosport advertising and popular culture's hyped image of motorcycle riding. I review the site from time to time and decide whether or not I'm still willing to take on the risk. At 65 and a daily rider (no car), so far, I have been. YMMV.

And welcome to our asylum... enjoy the ride! Please let us know how it goes, no matter your choice.

Bill

[Coyote Crazy]

My experience has been slightly different. At 55 yrs. old, 6' 2" and about 230 lbs. I had never owned nor ridden a motorcycle in my life. After a visit to the local BMW dealer the staff recommended the R1200R as a first bike. I had just completed my MFS course but had not yet taken the DMV test so my son test rode the demo R1200R and said he thought it was a good match for me. (He then promptly test rode a K1200R sport which he determined was a good match for him and rode it home that afternoon.) I waited a couple of months until the ASC became available. Still not having my M1 endorsement from the DMV I was still unable to test ride the bike but I put in an order for one with all the options and color I wanted anyway without any test ride. The bike was delivered just under two months later. A very close friend who had been riding for years accompanied me to take delivery and escort me home. My salesperson took a great deal of time explaining to me everything I needed to know to safely ride the bike. He answered all my questions with great patients. I left the parking lot and rode around the industrial park adjacent to the dealer for about 45 mins. until I felt comfortable beginning my 1 hr. trek home. We made frequent rest stops so I could catch my breath!

Now, over two and a half years later I think it was the best decision I made for a starter bike and have absolutely no regrets. (Oh! maybe one, I wanted a white one and they did not offer white in 2007. )

A few quick observations,

I found the bike to be very forgiving for a beginning rider, (ie: it can handle missed shifts, it has enough low end torque to not stall when starting out in 2nd gear not stalling and dumping you over, etc.)

A number of friends, including my son, have noted how quickly the bike and I have adapted to the local twisties (this bike takes to the curves like a duck to water).

And most important, the bike still has more power than I need, and still excites me every time I get on it!!

A suggestion about the concern of the weight of the bike, (I find it to be a good balance myself) but, if you are concerned about being able to pick it up after a drop, have a couple of good friends help you gently lean the bike over onto a couple of furniture pads and practice picking up the bike in the privacy of your own garage. I have found there is a technique to it doing it successfully without overly straining your back and now I have the confidence if I were to find myself in that situation I can right it back up quickly.

I feel fortunate that the R1200R is my first motorcycle. The way I see it, life ain't a dress rehearsal, so why not go for it.

+1 on that

[takemeaway]

Some very good advice and nice to see that you are carefully considering it. Just see if I can add a little something more to think about. My first bike was a Suzuki S50 (800CC). I really intended on keeping this bike for a year or two and working my way up to a bigger bike. My future goals being long distance touring. While many people gave me many opinions my basic requirement for my first bike (other then mechanically sound) was something that was a standard seating position and that I wouldn't mind dropping. It is just a given that you will. The learning curve is a little easier if you are more concerned with technique and getting it right then you are with not scratching or denting it. The Suzuki looked like a good bike to keep around for awhile. We did see a problem with the 600 miles in 3 years and the "stored indoors" (when it really wasn't). But we saw these issues and decided to go ahead. After each ride my husband and I would sit and discuss everything I see/felt/heard/did. We noticed that I consistently had some of the same issues, but I just chalked it up to "learning". Found out much later my husband thought I was being a bit of a wuss, but humoring me. Until he had to ride it for 200 miles. Then he realized the mushy brakes, pause in the throttle when starting out in first gear (requiring finesse with the clutch) and some other idiosyncracies could actually be attributed to the bike and not me. The entire time I was thinking it was just part of learning. But that bike had some serious issues...and I learned to ride with them. Talking with some other friends also learning at the same time I had more built in adversity and experienced more mechanical issues that helped me to learn faster. I learned better clutch control and was able to experience something for real to determine some features that I absolutely did or did not want in my next bike. I was only able to take the Suzuki for about 4 months/2000 miles before starting to look for the next bike. Which did happen to be the R12R... While I absolutely LOVE my bike I am glad it wasn't my first one. I think it is extremely important to get as much exposure to as many bikes as possible.

All that being said...some people do have an absolute idea of what they want and want to get it first. I have a strong headed male friend that didn't want to take advice and purchased the K1200GT as his first bike, with no experience other then the MSF bikes. I will admit that he was much more confident out of the starting gate then I was, and does seem to be handling it well. But he has dropped the purty little thing a couple times, ridden off the road through a curve once, only put 600 miles in 5 months on it and isn't learning nuances of technique as fast as he would on a slightly less powerful machine.

[takemeaway]

The way I see it, life ain't a dress rehearsal, so why not go for it.

+0.5 Life ain't a dress rehearsal, but neither do they have them for funerals. Nothing wrong with practicing first. You had to learn to crawl before you could walk.

[Rocket]

[quote="Motorcycle_Girl"]Hey if you have the $$$ to have the R1200R as your first, more power to you...personally as an instructor I get asked by my students all the time what bike should they buy as a first bike...

Keep in mind in Canada our motorcycle insurance is much more expensive than in the US too...

Just curious Celeste, how much is insurance in your part of the world?

Its around £250 -£300/year in UK (fully comprehensive, £200 excess, 50 yr old rider with no claims or penalties (a saint )

[Motorcycle_Girl]

Insurance rates here for all riders are very expensive...new ones even worse (at least compared to numbers that I have seen people from the US quote on forums)

I have a friend that was living in the US a few years ago. She started riding and got a new Sportster as her first bike and was paying $300/yr. She moved back to Canada and ended up selling the bike because in Canada the insurance was going to cost her about $2000/yr.

I know an 20 yr old that has a mid 80's 650 honda that pays over $2500 (with no theft, fire, or collision) and I have seen some people paying up to $4000 for newer bikes

Supersport new riders can pay $6000/yr or more and many companies will not insure SS bikes.

I had a student who was about 30 yrs old was paying $6000 a year for a sportster...with the motorcycle course most insurance companies give people a pretty good discount. He did not pass...so unless he came back for the retest this was a very expensive summer for him

I have heard extreme cases where a 16yr old had an R1 - paid $14K for the bike and $15k/yr for insurance (more money than brains in that family)

If you have been riding a while it is better. My boyfriend pays about $1400/year to fully cover his 2009 Harley Ultra Classic and his 2008 Bonneville. He has had over 25 years of continuous riding and insurance along with a clean driving record

I pay about $1200/year for the BMW full coverage and I paid $600 for the 1985 Nighthawk. The Nighthawk was covered for the minimum required by law.

The rates get better here after 6 years of continuous claim free insurance...but have one claim or a ticket and watch your rates go back up...

Considering too that here in Canada, in most areas the riding season is from April to October...Die hards can stretch it from March to November. I rode in Feb and March this year...but that does not happen often it makes if seem even more expensive...

Years ago you could get 6 month coverage, but not any more. The other thing that if you stop riding for a couple of years and then come back to it you are back to new rider rates...(being older does help)

I really don't know how a 16 or 17 year old affords to ride here. With no rate breaks until they are over 25....

Celeste

[Rocket]

..thats the last time I complain about my bike insurance premium in the UK.

So how come Canadian bikers have freaked out the insurance companies?...or is it a Government tax thing to drive bikers off the road?