Bike won't start...

[slow]

Hi,

I have a r1200r since 07. Due to work/life stuff, I have not been able to ride as much as I normally do. I was able to (after charging) successfully start it a 2 times since march 2010. I do seem to remember needing to charge the battery at least once to get it started. This season is the first time the battery needs charging to get it started. Last friday and today is the first time I try to start it after ~2 month of inactivity. Anyways, the bike won't start.

The battery has been on charge for a week now so I am assuming it is full. I didn't get a chance to meter it due to work. Anyone knows the proper voltage when it is fully charged?

The bike will initialize normally when you turn the key (sweeping arms and lights blinking...etc). But, will only "click click click" when push the start button. It does not "turn over" per se. This is the same behavior last friday too so I assumed it was low charge on battery. But battery is on charger the past week.

Is there a way to "jump" the bike with a car battery? I just want to make sure the bike OK and it is indeed the battery.

Bike is garage kept fairly well maintained by me if that means anything. The oil is from last year even though it only has ~500 miles on it.

Bike is stock with no mods other than things non-mechanical in nature.

Thanks for helping.

[websterize]

Jump-starting with a donor-battery voltage higher than 12 V can damage the vehicle electronics. Make sure that the battery of the donor vehicle has a voltage rating of 12 V.

More step-by-step instruction on jump starting is on page 121 of the owner's manual.

Three years is about as long as these batteries last no matter how much you charge them.

[slow]

Thanks for the reply and posting the PDF manual. The bullet where it states to run the engine of the donor vehicle scares me. Since based on everything I have read, unless the donor is another bike, it has always been NOT to start the vehicle. Does BMW charge system differ from other bikes?

If I do indeed need anther battery, is there a specific one I should get? or just repeat the OEM battery?

thanks

[websterize]

If the donor battery is 12V or less, you should be good, but I'm parroting what BMW says in the manual. I would do what works best for you.

I've yet to replace the battery, but other R12R riders like the Odyssey brand. Check out this thread as a start. Lots of discussion about replacement batteries on the forum.

[deilenberger]

slow (what's your real name?)..

Replace the battery. It's dead. Kaput. Passed on. Nailed to the perch. Gone to meet it's maker.

These Exide/BMW batteries (made in the USA even) are notorious for this sort of failure - usually before 3 years or so. Given your battery has been sitting for periods of time. The failure mode seems to be one of the internal connectors goes bad, and will pass low amounts of current (lights, charger, etc.) but goes high-resistance when called on for high-current (like the starter motor.)

It's time to give it a decent burial and get on with riding the bike more..

[sproggy]

The bullet where it states to run the engine of the donor vehicle scares me. Since based on everything I have read, unless the donor is another bike, it has always been NOT to start the vehicle. Does BMW charge system differ from other bikes?

The BMW system doesn't differ significantly from other bikes, but neither does it differ significantly from the systems in most cars! Any healthy 12v battery, bike or car, will sit at just over 12v without the engine running or closer to 14v with it running (and charging the battery). So you'll get a more effective jump (to overcome your own dead battery which will drain power from the donor vehicle) from a vehicle with its engine running than from one without. The voltage present in this case won't be any different to that found in your bike's own system when the engine's running so you have no need to worry.

It doesn't matter how much you charge a dead battery - for an hour, a day, a week or a month - it's still dead and won't start an engine. Just because you've connected it to a charger doesn't mean it's taking/holding the charge.

[mogu83]

Something to remember when jumping a bike from a car.
Most bikes have a battery that delivers about 200 CCA (cold cranking amps) Amps being the amount of current going through the wires. So the system is limited to the 200 Amps that the battery can put out. Most cars have a significantly higher rated battery in them. My van has a battery with 1,000 CCA. So if I use my van to jump my bike I have the potential to run five times the designed maximum current through the wires. . If you have a stuck starter or a short to ground very bad and expensive things could happen.

You can do it, but don't crank on the starter too long. If you get a big spark don't hook the jumper wires up.

I realize most of us are aware of this, but it may save someone that doesn't know some money.

[tinytrains]

I was surprised that the manual says to have the car running for a jump start. A healthy car battery should turn the bike starter with no problem. You could use the car's engine to charge the bike battery for a bit. I doubt the bike starter will hurt the car's alternator.

When jumping another car, I never have the helper car engine running. The load of the other cars battery and starter can fry the diodes in the helper car's alternator. If it won't start, run the helper car a bit to put some charge in the dead battery, turn it off and try again.

Scott

[slow]

Thanks everyone for the help. Thanks websterize for posting the link to the thread on PC535 battery discussion.

I am wondering since it seems most likely that need a new battery, is there one that does not require modification and just drop in? I don't have time to ride let along tinker with snipping the fins and what not to get it fit. I am sure the result will be well worth it, but, I just don't have the time right now.

I did do a search here on 'battery' and after brief read, was only able to find wesco brand and the modified PC535... any other suggestion welcome!

thanks

[TIV]

Something to remember when jumping a bike from a car.
Most bikes have a battery that delivers about 200 CCA (cold cranking amps) Amps being the amount of current going through the wires. So the system is limited to the 200 Amps that the battery can put out. Most cars have a significantly higher rated battery in them. My van has a battery with 1,000 CCA. So if I use my van to jump my bike I have the potential to run five times the designed maximum current through the wires. . If you have a stuck starter or a short to ground very bad and expensive things could happen.

You can do it, but don't crank on the starter too long. If you get a big spark don't hook the jumper wires up.

I realize most of us are aware of this, but it may save someone that doesn't know some money.

12Volts is 12Volts. It doesn't matter if the car or van has 1 million CCA as It won't hurt your bike. The CCA is just how many amps or power the battery can put out until exhausted so it can crank over your bike longer before going dead. Of course if you let it crank too long with any battery you'll risk burning up your starter.

Your bike won't draw too much current hooked up to your van.

[boxerpaul]

I'm not an expert on electrical systems and batteries, but I did experience a defective first battery on the R1200R. I started carrying jumper cables with me and they came in handy on many occasions until I was able to make ith the 250 km back to the dealer.

All I know is that I was a little wary of having the helper car start up, just using some sort of common sense thinking, not based on any actual electrical knowledge.

The bike started every time, just being hooked up to the non running car.

Used to do the same thing on my old XV750, again never with a running car.

Just my experience, for what it's worth. Oh, and I recently replaced my second battery with an Odyssey and haven't looked back,

Paul

[mogu83]

[quote="TIV]12Volts is 12Volts. It doesn't matter if the car or van has 1 million CCA as It won't hurt your bike. The CCA is just how many amps or power the battery can put out until exhausted so it can crank over your bike longer before going dead. Of course if you let it crank too long with any battery you'll risk burning up your starter.
Your bike won't draw too much current hooked up to your van.[/quote]

I worked for 35 years with low voltage, high amperage DC voltage. I can show you a AAA battery cell, the size of a short pencil, that puts out 1.5V and I can show you a cell the size of a 55 gal fish tank that puts out 1.8V. I saw someone drop a pair of pliers across one of those cells once and after the flash and loud bang all that was left was some metal splatters. I don't think that would happen if you shorted out a flashlight battery. But I could be wrong.

[sproggy]

I worked for 35 years with low voltage, high amperage DC voltage. I can show you a AAA battery cell, the size of a short pencil, that puts out 1.5V and I can show you a cell the size of a 55 gal fish tank that puts out 1.8V. I saw someone drop a pair of pliers across one of those cells once and after the flash and loud bang all that was left was some metal splatters. I don't think that would happen if you shorted out a flashlight battery. But I could be wrong.

Nice story, but completely irrelevant in terms of jump-starting a vehicle! We're not talking about shorting out a battery here, we're talking about jump-starting. A starter (and the rest of the bike's electrics) will draw only as much current as they need. Just because the donor battery is capable of delivering a gazillion amps doesn't mean it always will - it will provide just as much as systems connected to it demand, up to its maximum current capacity. The fact that a car battery might have a CCA rating of 300A doesn't mean that everything else connected to it will get fried - nothing else on a car needs that current, just the starter.

[hjsbmw]

Your bike won't draw too much current hooked up to your van.

This will be the case as long as things are in working order. Consider the equation current = voltage / resistance. Since the voltage is 12V for modern car and motorcycle batteries, the vehicle electrics will draw the 'proper' amount of power as long as the resistance in the circuit is what the designers meant it to be, i.e. no shorts or open circuits are present. If there is a short then the resistance is smaller than expected, and the current will become larger than what constitutes 'proper', provided the battery is able to supply that current.

The thinking is that, since your vehicle already is not starting, something in the electrics might be wrong, there might be a short, attaching a car battery might therefore lead to a large current because the car battery is capable of delivering it, and it might fry the bike's electrics. Nobody says it will happen, but manufacturers have to warn against it, simply because it's a possibility.

[mogu83]

[quote="hjsbmw]The thinking is that, since your vehicle already is not starting, something in the electrics might be wrong, there might be a short, attaching a car battery might therefore lead to a large current because the car battery is capable of delivering it, and it might fry the bike's electrics. Nobody says it will happen, but manufacturers have to warn against it, simply because it's a possibility.[/quote]

Thank You,
I think I posted --- . If you have a stuck starter or a short to ground very bad and expensive things could happen

Another example of why people don't post things, does anyone actually READ the post before they comment on it.

[Gatuso]

Thanks everyone for the help. Thanks websterize for posting the link to the thread on PC535 battery discussion.

I am wondering since it seems most likely that need a new battery, is there one that does not require modification and just drop in? I don't have time to ride let along tinker with snipping the fins and what not to get it fit. I am sure the result will be well worth it, but, I just don't have the time right now.

I did do a search here on 'battery' and after brief read, was only able to find wesco brand and the modified PC535... any other suggestion welcome!

thanks

I bought a Westco battery from the http://www.beemerboneyard.com and this battery is a "drop-in" battery and so far so good.

Lates.

Rudy.

[gibbo111]

Have just replaced my original with a DEKA ETX14 . slips straight in tokk about 5 minutes to put in . original lasted nearly 3.5 years

[tinytrains]

I bought a Westco battery from the http://www.beemerboneyard.com and this battery is a "drop-in" battery and so far so good.

Lates
Rudy.

Which Westco battery fits the R1200R? They do not show one at Bemer Boneyard.

Scott

[slow]

It is a alive!!

I want to thank everyone for chiming in. It is indeed the battery. I ended up ordering the Deka per suggestion here. It came yesterday and I left it on charger till today. The start was instantaneous. It has never started this fast even when new. I am not sure how long this fast start will last, but, if I can get another good 3 years out of this, it is $70 well spent.

It is a direct fit same exact size comes with hardware. I am not sure how hardy it is compare to odyssey, but, for my $$ the odyssey @~120+ shipping, will need to last at least 5 years to break even.

anyways, thanks everyone.

[Gatuso]

I bought a Westco battery from the http://www.beemerboneyard.com and this battery is a "drop-in" battery and so far so good.

Lates
Rudy.

Which Westco battery fits the R1200R? They do not show one at Bemer Boneyard.

Scott

Here you go, Westco AGM Sealed Battery 12V14B