Clunk!

[r12gecko]

I've noticed if I shift up or down between 1>2 or 2>1 around 20 km/h or less there's a hefty clunk, even if I try to power off for the upshift and blip to match engine speed on the downshift. The clunk seems to come more from the back than from the transmission, but I can't say for sure. My past F800 was very smooth in this regard, so this is a clunk I'm not used to and don't like. If I downshift from 2-1 over 20 km/h, a good blip will do it smooth, no issue. I don't usually like to downshift to 1 while in motion, but for some tight city corners, 2nd is just too tall.

Others experience or views?

[mogu83]

There's a lot of slop designed in this drive train and it becomes very evident in low speed stuff. Try pulling the clutch in while in first gear and then letting it out again while your going about 10 MPH - it sounds like the whole rear drive is falling in the street (at least compared to my Valkyrie and Guzzi). BTW: I only did that twice, once by accident and again to confirm what happened.
Just some more high tech German engineering, like the never change rear drive fluid

[thepeacebullgrunt]

r12gecko I have the same sound and now 36K... I don't know why but I hear the sound today less than when the bike was new. At this time I also thought it could be a growing mechanical issue but I kind of lived with it until now and neither my bike or the transmission failed.

[bhmav8r]

Mine ('08) does the same thing. I notice it most when shifting from 2>1 before I stop. All other shifts are "normal".

I try to shift into 1st as late as possible before I stop.

[thepeacebullgrunt]

Mine is 08 too... same "clunk" in parkings at slow speed or red light in traffic... almost always when moving slowly and cautiously.

otherwise @36K bike run like a charm...even the idle seem now to be fine since I fuel only 91 at 76Stations.

Gear shifting is overall like an "obscene dream of smoothness" except while shifting 1 to 2 sometimes I feel "the clicking" not really right, similar feeling of when a door at home is not well closed. When this thing happen I almost superstitiously shift back in first and re-engage properly or as I felt it should. I am not racing so I don't mind losing a second doing that.

[Kieran R1200R]

If you want your bike to shift better put 100% full synthetic in the box and final drive, it makes a very big difference.
As far as shifting from 2nd to 1st DON'T!!! Just pull the the cluch in from 4th and keep it in and down shift until you find the gear you want and then let the cluth out slowly to take up the slack, saves a lot of headaches! try it and you will adopt it!!

[Kieran R1200R]

There is a monumentle difference from a Japanese inline 4 to a twin with a sepperate gearbox, let alone a shaft drive.
The Japanese perfected this in the 70's that's why they lead the way in bike sales.
It's just us old guys that buy these realy antiquated bike because they have character.
Once we are gone these bikes will disappear.
BMW knows this that's why they have changed to there inline 4 and now 6 and paralell twin with no sepperate gearbox to try and win over the younger generation that have not experienced bikes from the 50ies and 60ies.
All you guys that complain that there is a clunk hear and there are just experiencing what a bike does with a drive shaft, a dry clutch and sepperate gearbox. The slack or transition that takes place between these componants has to go somewhere.
Look guys do some of your own homework before posting because this bored is starting to sound like a Mothers Meet!

[ShinySideUp]

Yeah, listen up all you mutha's!

I drive everyday on the job in San Francisco with lots of pedestrians. The R12R exhaust is sewing-machine quiet. If it weren't for the clunk, nobody would know I was about to make that right turn and mow them down!

And to R12gecko (OP): I used to think 2nd was too tall for slow corners, but now I've learned to trust the torque to get me through without downshifting, unless there's a steep hill involved.

And now back to the Mother's Meet!

[redwing]

Mine clunks at low RPMs too. I think maybe 4k and up is quiet. I got 8k plus miles.
And I have used 2nd for 90 degree turns for some time because when I let the clutch out all I need do is give it a little gas. As for 1st gear I got to have RPMs or the 1st gear slows the bike... but I can use either 1st or 2nd for most turns except maybe when I have to really slow down. Like a curb to roll over when entering a parking lot then 1st is a must.

Robert

[r12gecko]

Well, I've found a way around the downshift clunk - double the clutch. Anyone who's driven something ancient will know this phrase - it pre-dates synchromesh transmissions & was required to match wheel speeds within the gearbox between shifts on older cars & trucks (maybe truckers still use it, I don't know).

So, for a smooth transition to first as you are rolling up to a stop:

Select neutral
Release clutch lever to engage clutch
Blip lightly to spin things up
Press into 1st while pulling clutch lever back in (timing here is something you just need to get a feel for)
Presto... a smooth engagement with 1st

For upshifting, the answer is as per comments above - just don't go 1 > 2 until you're at 25 km/h or better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_clutch

Note the following from the wiki item:

"However, when the engine speed is significantly different than the transmission speed, the desired gear can often not be engaged even in a fully synchronized gearbox. An example is trying to shift into a gear while travelling outside the gear's speed or directional range, such as accidentally into 1st from near the top of 2nd, or intentionally from reverse to a forward gear whilst still moving at speed."

[deilenberger]

There is a monumentle difference from a Japanese inline 4 to a twin with a sepperate gearbox, let alone a shaft drive.
The Japanese perfected this in the 70's that's why they lead the way in bike sales.

Most Japanese moto companies are now sucking wind on sales. Suzuki didn't bring any '10 bikes into the US because they had warehouses full of '08's and '09's. I suspect they still have warehouses full of leftovers. I've seen numbers of Japanese sales being down 30-50% (depends on where you read it..)

Meanwhile - BMW's US motorcycle sales are up 24% over this time last year (beginning of the year to beginning of September.) Some of that (~6,400 units) is S1000RR sales, but the GS sales have gone up quite nicely, as have other models. I sorta expect as the Japanese also fall behind in technology, BMW's are going to continue selling quite well - and not only to us old pharts.

It's just us old guys that buy these realy antiquated bike because they have character.
Once we are gone these bikes will disappear.
BMW knows this that's why they have changed to there inline 4 and now 6 and paralell twin with no sepperate gearbox to try and win over the younger generation that have not experienced bikes from the 50ies and 60ies.

I don't understand "antiquated" - lets see, a bike available with ABS, DSC, OBC and producing 107HP from 1200cc's - doesn't sound that antiquated to me. Traditional BMW? Yes.. but it's a very modern implimentation of a classic design. Nothing wrong with that IMHO.

What happened was - BMW realized their market was dying off (us).. so if they wanted to stay in business they had to appeal to a younger crowd, so - it wasn't the separate gearbox, or DS vs chain, it was what they can make a profit on and still compete. I suspect the S1000RR is considerably less expensive to produce then an R1200R is since much of it's appeal is the electronic gizmo's, and those once developed are an almost zero cost add-on, with a high profit markup. Chain drive is cheaper, single engine/transmission castings are cheaper. Being competitive out of the box required the most HP for the class, so they put the engine guys to work.. and came out with it. That gets people in the door who normally wouldn't give BMW a second glance. The bike is what makes them a customer.

The smaller parallel twins appeal to a mixed bunch. Younger people - yes, but also old pharts who want a modern day K75 like bike. I know a number of people who've gone from the K75 to the 800cc vertical twin because it feels a lot like the K75, and isn't intimidating in size/weight.

The new 1600cc I6 is designed to lure away the Goldwing crowd, who counts cylinders and displacement as an important factor in their choice of bikes. BMW is going head to head with Honda on this one - and the Goldwing crowd isn't what one would call youngsters (we'll just have to get used to matching satin jackets and kiwi's on a stick at rallies..) If they produce a sporty bike with this engine (can't imagine they won't) it will be an interesting bike - appealing to those of us who can afford it (old pharts) who think they still are racers.

All you guys that complain that there is a clunk hear and there are just experiencing what a bike does with a drive shaft, a dry clutch and sepperate gearbox. The slack or transition that takes place between these componants has to go somewhere.
Look guys do some of your own homework before posting because this bored is starting to sound like a Mothers Meet!

I don't understand your nag at the other members, but I'm certain YOUR postings are never going to be confused with a Mothers Meet! (whatever that is..)

[Sander Abernathy]

Who put sand in Kieran's vegamite?

[websterize]

I drive everyday on the job in San Francisco with lots of pedestrians. The R12R exhaust is sewing-machine quiet. If it weren't for the clunk, nobody would know I was about to make that right turn and mow them down!

In addition to ABS, TPM and ASC, I specifically requested my bike have the clunk™ option. Works well on the iPod-wearing pedestrians for this thirtysomething city commuter.

[Kieran R1200R]

There is a monumentle difference from a Japanese inline 4 to a twin with a sepperate gearbox, let alone a shaft drive.
The Japanese perfected this in the 70's that's why they lead the way in bike sales.

Most Japanese moto companies are now sucking wind on sales. Suzuki didn't bring any '10 bikes into the US because they had warehouses full of '08's and '09's. I suspect they still have warehouses full of leftovers. I've seen numbers of Japanese sales being down 30-50% (depends on where you read it..)

Meanwhile - BMW's US motorcycle sales are up 24% over this time last year (beginning of the year to beginning of September.) Some of that (~6,400 units) is S1000RR sales, but the GS sales have gone up quite nicely, as have other models. I sorta expect as the Japanese also fall behind in technology, BMW's are going to continue selling quite well - and not only to us old pharts.

It's just us old guys that buy these realy antiquated bike because they have character.
Once we are gone these bikes will disappear.
BMW knows this that's why they have changed to there inline 4 and now 6 and paralell twin with no sepperate gearbox to try and win over the younger generation that have not experienced bikes from the 50ies and 60ies.

I don't understand "antiquated" - lets see, a bike available with ABS, DSC, OBC and producing 107HP from 1200cc's - doesn't sound that antiquated to me. Traditional BMW? Yes.. but it's a very modern implimentation of a classic design. Nothing wrong with that IMHO.

What happened was - BMW realized their market was dying off (us).. so if they wanted to stay in business they had to appeal to a younger crowd, so - it wasn't the separate gearbox, or DS vs chain, it was what they can make a profit on and still compete. I suspect the S1000RR is considerably less expensive to produce then an R1200R is since much of it's appeal is the electronic gizmo's, and those once developed are an almost zero cost add-on, with a high profit markup. Chain drive is cheaper, single engine/transmission castings are cheaper. Being competitive out of the box required the most HP for the class, so they put the engine guys to work.. and came out with it. That gets people in the door who normally wouldn't give BMW a second glance. The bike is what makes them a customer.

The smaller parallel twins appeal to a mixed bunch. Younger people - yes, but also old pharts who want a modern day K75 like bike. I know a number of people who've gone from the K75 to the 800cc vertical twin because it feels a lot like the K75, and isn't intimidating in size/weight.

The new 1600cc I6 is designed to lure away the Goldwing crowd, who counts cylinders and displacement as an important factor in their choice of bikes. BMW is going head to head with Honda on this one - and the Goldwing crowd isn't what one would call youngsters (we'll just have to get used to matching satin jackets and kiwi's on a stick at rallies..) If they produce a sporty bike with this engine (can't imagine they won't) it will be an interesting bike - appealing to those of us who can afford it (old pharts) who think they still are racers.

All you guys that complain that there is a clunk hear and there are just experiencing what a bike does with a drive shaft, a dry clutch and sepperate gearbox. The slack or transition that takes place between these componants has to go somewhere.
Look guys do some of your own homework before posting because this bored is starting to sound like a Mothers Meet!

I don't understand your nag at the other members, but I'm certain YOUR postings are never going to be confused with a Mothers Meet! (whatever that is..)

Your missing my point Don.
The guy's complaining his bike clunks into gear. He is ridding a bike with a shaft drive, a sepperate gearbox, and a dry clutch.
That combination is as old as bikes themself. Put your bike in gear and move it backwards and forward, there is about 30-40mm of movement, once you engage the gearbox the slack between all these componants is trying to take up, therefore you will hear a audible clunk. There is no kush drive or slipper clutch as there is on Japanese bikes! ( By the way they put it into there bikes first )
You can put ABS, DSC, and OBC it wont make the clunk go away.
The design is very antiquated.
If you are not our age there is noway a younger guy will go out and buy this setup let alone want to ride one.
That's why BMW now have over motors and you have pointed out that the S1000RR sales are huge.
One way to get around the clunk our bike makes is to pull your clutch in, brake and get the desired speed you want, down shift with the clutch still in until you have the gear you want and let the clutch out. Why go through all the gears and have it clunk it's way down. Synthetis oil in the gearbox and final drive minimizes this clunk and makes for a smoother shift.
Also Don the Japanese bike sales maybe down, I haven't checked but they would still be selling more units than BMW could ever imagin worldwide.

[Kieran R1200R]

Who put sand in Kieran's vegamite?

yes and sorry I've been a bit grouchy lately!
Wouldn't be because it's winter here!

[blueviewlaguna]

Keep in mind that all the clunking, driveline backlash and clutch smells are present on all separate gearbox, shaftdrive, dry clutch manual transmission automobiles as well, but we are not sitting on top of the naked drivetrain to hear and smell them. I once had the shift cover off my (at the time) nearly new Porsche and the mechanical noises, lash and smells were surprising from the Syncro gearbox.

[Kieran R1200R]

Keep in mind that all the clunking, driveline backlash and clutch smells are present on all separate gearbox, shaftdrive, dry clutch manual transmission automobiles as well.


Absolutely!!!

[Kieran R1200R]

Also you can note that BMW uni-nuckled the driveshaft to try and take the rise and fall the shaft put on the rear of the bike, they succeeded to a certain degree, but what stays with a shaft is there is no slippage back along the drive. The only place you can let it go to is to pull the clutch in and let the revs deminish. If you go into a left hand corner at speed where it requires you to select a lower gear to drive out of the tranition for all the slack will take up and transfer it to the rear tyre where it will slip. This was more apparant on my R1100S where there was more slop in the drive train, the R1200R has less slop so its not as noticable. To reduce this I pull the clutch in a go down through the gears until I select the one I want rather than sellect every gear and let the clutch out each time.

[r12gecko]

You might have missed my second post - it goes away if you double the clutch when shifting down. Nuff, said, as they say... time for another beer!

There is a monumentle difference from a Japanese inline 4 to a twin with a sepperate gearbox, let alone a shaft drive.
The Japanese perfected this in the 70's that's why they lead the way in bike sales.

Most Japanese moto companies are now sucking wind on sales. Suzuki didn't bring any '10 bikes into the US because they had warehouses full of '08's and '09's. I suspect they still have warehouses full of leftovers. I've seen numbers of Japanese sales being down 30-50% (depends on where you read it..)

Meanwhile - BMW's US motorcycle sales are up 24% over this time last year (beginning of the year to beginning of September.) Some of that (~6,400 units) is S1000RR sales, but the GS sales have gone up quite nicely, as have other models. I sorta expect as the Japanese also fall behind in technology, BMW's are going to continue selling quite well - and not only to us old pharts.

It's just us old guys that buy these realy antiquated bike because they have character.
Once we are gone these bikes will disappear.
BMW knows this that's why they have changed to there inline 4 and now 6 and paralell twin with no sepperate gearbox to try and win over the younger generation that have not experienced bikes from the 50ies and 60ies.

I don't understand "antiquated" - lets see, a bike available with ABS, DSC, OBC and producing 107HP from 1200cc's - doesn't sound that antiquated to me. Traditional BMW? Yes.. but it's a very modern implimentation of a classic design. Nothing wrong with that IMHO.

What happened was - BMW realized their market was dying off (us).. so if they wanted to stay in business they had to appeal to a younger crowd, so - it wasn't the separate gearbox, or DS vs chain, it was what they can make a profit on and still compete. I suspect the S1000RR is considerably less expensive to produce then an R1200R is since much of it's appeal is the electronic gizmo's, and those once developed are an almost zero cost add-on, with a high profit markup. Chain drive is cheaper, single engine/transmission castings are cheaper. Being competitive out of the box required the most HP for the class, so they put the engine guys to work.. and came out with it. That gets people in the door who normally wouldn't give BMW a second glance. The bike is what makes them a customer.

The smaller parallel twins appeal to a mixed bunch. Younger people - yes, but also old pharts who want a modern day K75 like bike. I know a number of people who've gone from the K75 to the 800cc vertical twin because it feels a lot like the K75, and isn't intimidating in size/weight.

The new 1600cc I6 is designed to lure away the Goldwing crowd, who counts cylinders and displacement as an important factor in their choice of bikes. BMW is going head to head with Honda on this one - and the Goldwing crowd isn't what one would call youngsters (we'll just have to get used to matching satin jackets and kiwi's on a stick at rallies..) If they produce a sporty bike with this engine (can't imagine they won't) it will be an interesting bike - appealing to those of us who can afford it (old pharts) who think they still are racers.

All you guys that complain that there is a clunk hear and there are just experiencing what a bike does with a drive shaft, a dry clutch and sepperate gearbox. The slack or transition that takes place between these componants has to go somewhere.
Look guys do some of your own homework before posting because this bored is starting to sound like a Mothers Meet!

I don't understand your nag at the other members, but I'm certain YOUR postings are never going to be confused with a Mothers Meet! (whatever that is..)

Your missing my point Don.
The guy's complaining his bike clunks into gear. He is ridding a bike with a shaft drive, a sepperate gearbox, and a dry clutch.
That combination is as old as bikes themself. Put your bike in gear and move it backwards and forward, there is about 30-40mm of movement, once you engage the gearbox the slack between all these componants is trying to take up, therefore you will hear a audible clunk. There is no kush drive or slipper clutch as there is on Japanese bikes! ( By the way they put it into there bikes first )
You can put ABS, DSC, and OBC it wont make the clunk go away.
The design is very antiquated.
If you are not our age there is noway a younger guy will go out and buy this setup let alone want to ride one.
That's why BMW now have over motors and you have pointed out that the S1000RR sales are huge.
One way to get around the clunk our bike makes is to pull your clutch in, brake and get the desired speed you want, down shift with the clutch still in until you have the gear you want and let the clutch out. Why go through all the gears and have it clunk it's way down. Synthetis oil in the gearbox and final drive minimizes this clunk and makes for a smoother shift.
Also Don the Japanese bike sales maybe down, I haven't checked but they would still be selling more units than BMW could ever imagin worldwide.