leather vs textile jacket

[hbrandan]

I am starting a new search for a good jacket/pants to ride in moderate weather. Not too cold, but down to high 30's low 40's.
my question is, what do people think between leather vs textile gear? Leather seems to be more expensive, but is it better?
BMW makes great gear, but pricy. I would like something that will keep me dry as well as warm.
any comments?

[mogu83]

ooh ooh - this is close to an oil thread, but it was 5 degrees this morning and nothing much else to do.

I like leather, (black) it's traditional and cool looking. I have two leather jackets and heavy leather riding pants. That said I also have three textile jackets (one glow in the dark green) and two sets of textile riding pants.
Naturally this is IMHO, but I think that the new textiles are far superior to leather both in weather protection and personal protection. With body armor, gor-tex, and Thinsulate insulation it's usually a textile jacket that gets the call when I go out for a ride. Every now and then I'll grab a leather jacket when I go out on an old bike (cool factor) but for serious rides it's the textile, spending a day in the rain will amaze you how much water leather can absorb.

People always bring up that racers wear leather, but racers don't face the problems road riders do plus the leather jackets that are commonly availible are no where near the thickness of racing leathers. I have to add that for some reason our German friends seem to turn out in heavy leather and ride thru the hot summer months in it. I don't know how they do it.
.

[ContraMoto]

Without any doubt, leather is better if you're sliding across the ground. Any textile offering the same abrasion protection will be as thick as leather, and you wouldn't want it. So, leather remains the gold standard. Ask a veteran EMT. They've seen it all and they see riders in heavy leather gear with minimal abrasion injuries, and riders in textiles needing skin grafts. (Both groups are equally likely to have other injuries...)

But, proper leather (ie, thick enough to offer protection) is bulky and hot. As with many things, it comes down to choices...you can't have it all with a single motorbike, or with the clothing to go with it. Heavy leather = best protection. Quality textile = comfort, water protection and versatility.

I have a nice heavy, resin-impregnated leather jacket that I wear when it's under ~65 degrees. It's warm, waterproof (mostly) and stylish. But I can't wait till it's warmer out so I can wear a lighter weight textile jacket. I don't worry about warm-weather rain protection since I live in sunny California where there is a zero chance of rain from late April till October.

Out here, "warm" and "rain" don't happen at the same time. If it's raining, it's cold. If it's warm, it ain't gonna rain.

[TT RDHS]

Check out this leather suit from Aerostich. It's the best of both worlds.
http://www.aerostich.com/transit-two-piece-suit.html
I'll layer a light windbreaker (from North Face) under the jacket when temps get below 50f.
And I add a heated vest (also from Aerostich) for stuff below 40f.
Always comfy & dry!

[Chumley]

I would like to point out that the only motorcycle racers I am aware of wearing leather these days are road racers and dirt trackers. If you look elsewhere I think you will see textiles. Look at rallye racers (Dakar), enduro riders, super moto and others that go down fast on surfaces that range from asphalt to dirt. There may be some compromise for agility but it seems to work for them.

I would be hesitant to generalize that you might be more at risk to abrasion in a textile jacket. Try calling the folks at Aerostich and talk to some users of quality textiles and I think you will find that textiles are very effective. I do not routinely travel at +100 mph, more like 60-80 mph except for the unusual "moment of weakness". I would agree that leather is the best for the high speed slide. Textiles are just fine for most and I don't think we need to alarm people into thinking that they are at risk of a skin graft if they go that way.

Does anyone remember the argument that textiles offer less friction so you may be able to slide with less tumbling while a leather jacket may grip and tumble a downed rider?

I used to have a similar debate regarding the effectiveness of a helmet that met Snell requirements but were so hard that they actually transmitted more G forces to the head. Some of the helmets that did not mee the Snell ratings were better at dissipating energy at real world impact speeds. The racer might need the Snell rated helmet but the rest of us rarely needed it and it may have had undesireable consequences. Snell 2010 is now in line with this philosophy. This was based upon an article by Motorcyclist I believe. We do not necessarily need what a roadracer does.

FWIW: I routinely wear leather when possible. My favorite is a Vanson perforated jacket I wear most of the year and most of my leather gear has armor.

[angellr]

I would like to point out that the only motorcycle racers I am aware of wearing leather these days are road racers and dirt trackers. If you look elsewhere I think you will see textiles. Look at rallye racers (Dakar), enduro riders, super moto and others that go down fast on surfaces that range from asphalt to dirt. There may be some compromise for agility but it seems to work for them.

I would be hesitant to generalize that you might be more at risk to abrasion in a textile jacket. Try calling the folks at Aerostich and talk to some users of quality textiles and I think you will find that textiles are very effective. I do not routinely travel at +100 mph, more like 60-80 mph except for the unusual "moment of weakness". I would agree that leather is the best for the high speed slide. Textiles are just fine for most and I don't think we need to alarm people into thinking that they are at risk of a skin graft if they go that way.

Does anyone remember the argument that textiles offer less friction so you may be able to slide with less tumbling while a leather jacket may grip and tumble a downed rider?

I used to have a similar debate regarding the effectiveness of a helmet that met Snell requirements but were so hard that they actually transmitted more G forces to the head. Some of the helmets that did not mee the Snell ratings were better at dissipating energy at real world impact speeds. The racer might need the Snell rated helmet but the rest of us rarely needed it and it may have had undesireable consequences. Snell 2010 is now in line with this philosophy. This was based upon an article by Motorcyclist I believe. We do not necessarily need what a roadracer does.

FWIW: I routinely wear leather when possible. My favorite is a Vanson perforated jacket I wear most of the year and most of my leather gear has armor.

Motoport Kevlar w/quad armor is my jacket of choice. 4000lb tensile strength works for me in a high speed slide. At 60 or 100 mph, you can do serious damage to yourself. Leather is personal choice, but it is HOT in the summer.

[LumpyCam]

Natural vs synthetic... resistance to wear... weight... temperature tolerance... It's an oil thread in disguise!

[roger l]

I have all textile. When I think of leather chaps I can not get past the Village People.

Roger L

[mogu83]

Apologizes to the Motocross, enduro and dirt track racers. I generally only consider roadracing, my error. People get into the sliding thing and that is one of the big differences between riding on the road and organized racing. Usually most tracks (except possibly Daytona and NHMS) have wide areas in the turns where a downed rider can safely slide without hitting a large hard object. A rider usually spends little time (feet) on the road surface before hitting the grass or the gravel.

On the street it's a whole different ball game, if you go down your going to do a long slide on the black top or your going to hit a hard object that will bring you to a stop.

Most of us dress for the crash, or at least buy good stuff to crash in, the trick is to get something you will put on every time you ride.

Anything is better than jeans a t-shirt and sneakers and I think we can all agree with that.

[rockbottom]

I have to add that for some reason our German friends seem to turn out in heavy leather and ride thru the hot summer months in it. I don't know how they do it.
.

The same reason that most cars, houses, and hotels in Germany aren't air conditioned--hot and humid happens, but very rarely.

[winkeldc]

Since this is all opinion, I just need to add that whether leather or textile, it all comes down to the quaility of product. I have read plenty of stories online and talking to others of bikers going down in aerostich gear and rev'it cayennes for example and coming out just fine. I have read other stories where some of the summer mesh jackets tend to heat your skin as you slide and I have experienced leather gloves shreading at low speed slides. I suspect there are plenty of cheap leather gear out there that would not be any better than denim. I know that there are plenty of quality leathers out there that would do the trick, but leather sucks in the summer, and quite frankly isn't all that warm in winter without liners.

Whether you get leather or textile, just look at reviews of the product. The textile jackets have armour and extra material over high-impact areas. I haven't seen leathers with armor, but that's because I just look for textile. It all depends on your taste. I would personally not listen to anyone that advocates one over the other. Textiles have come a long way and come in so many differenct forms that it's impossible to compare based on textiles in general. Each, textile or leather, has its use and like everything else about this sport, it all depends on the acceptable level of risk vs. comfort. You can search online for stories about people "testing" the protection of their gear, and if that's your concern then just get that stuff. Just my two cents.

[xprof]

I love my leather jacket, and wouldn't ride anything else. Until it starts raining, that is, in which case give me seam-sealed synthetics!

[bmwk100]

I guess I'll be the first to give a suggestion. I recently tried out the BMW Comfortshell jacket and it was amazing. It is very pricey, but you can find discounted ones around. Very comfortable, waterproof and can handle cold weather too.

[SDMAX]

I missed the last general meeting of our local BMW club. Wayne from this company gave a presentation:

http://www.motoport.com/Home

I heard it was poorly received, I really believe in the motoport product and have two jackets and a pair of jeans; and, bought the same stuff top and bottom for my son. It's expensive, it's kind of hard to figure your way around the web site; but, basically just call them.

It was easy for me in San Diego because they are just up the road about 30 miles.

He was poorly received, because, I've heard he basically opined that his gear was the only gear and all the other stuff was crap. Well, he was talking to BMW guys with BMW gear that they had paid big bucks for and other big buck stuff that was not his and that's how it was received.

I believe in the stuff and wear it. ATGATT [ All The Gear All The Time ]

Previous poster was right; it's not good if you don't put it on. My stuff lives hanging from hangers hung on the bicycles hung from the beams in my Southern California garage. I don't ride the bicycles anymore but they make great hangers. I go down to the garage put my stuff on and get on the bike and go....coming home, I use my custom garage door opener and reverse the process:

http://wimp.com/garageopener/

I bought black stretch kevlar jeans with suspenders. I bought a pair of jeans that fit ok from Walmart and they used them for a pattern. Bought a marathon jacket made out of the same stuff; put suspenders on the jeans, made the waist bigger; changed the jean pockets to straight across in the front with zippers; delete back pockets; armored it all up.

2nd jacket is mesh for air flow on warmer days. This stuff is the cheese. It's good. It's expensive....at a rider course I saw a guy in expensive other mfg textile gear go down at 5 mph ...big rip in forearm of sleeve...he had barely kissed the pavement and the material just dissolved.

Talk to Motoport...they'll guide you through the process. Check Adventure Rider on this issue...they have along chain of posts...

ATGATT whatever you do....stay vertical. Best. JWH

[Caroanbill]

I have a few textile jackets,a nd a couple of leather ones. I quite like wearing leather, and until ten years ago it was all I wore. In Aussie middling temperatures (above 17C / 63F; below 26C / 80F) leather is quite comfortable. But it gets cold, it gets hot, and it gets very wet (mine is the BMW Freeway "rainproof" .. hah!).

Leather looses as soon as the weather is less than poifick. So if the weather is iffy or it's a multiday trip, it's back to textile for me: tough cordura, gortex, kevlar, armour - all in one comfortable, stylish (well, BMW take on Belstaff stylish) jacket. Breathable is great when it's dry and hot - so much more comfy than leather (of course, water vapour can't pass through a layer of water so no fabric/membrane "breathes" when it's actually wet). I don't bother with liners etc - I stay warmer when the weather chills by wearing a good quality fleece (vest or jumper) .. fits much better and is less bulky.

Of the real-world road crashes I've seen (a few too many), textile is as good as - or better than - leather. Leather's great quality is that it abrades - some fibres (aramid/ kevlar, most notably) don't. A long slide in leather will see the nice, thick leather abrade, slowing you down (somewhat) while protecting your hide. But as a few posters have pointed out, the only place that's likely is a track day. In the real world, well made quality textile jackets are as good as leather in a crash.

So, if it's one jacket - a good, breathable / waterproof textile jacket wins hands down.

Around town, I've taken to wearing a Corazzo Postale: http://www.corazzo.net/the-postale-jacket
The shell is waterproof (though the collar design is not) - armpits zips give reasonable cooling, and there's a zip-out fleece vest (though again I prefer a 'proper' garment one). Good but unobtrusive armor (I've replaced the back protector with a more flexible CE foam one). Great around town, especially on a scoot, and it looks and wears like an ordinary jacket off the bike .. No need to remove it for a cafe stop and I've even worn it through a movie. In fact, I liked it so much I bought a second colour. Unless it's too hot to go anywhere, or pouring rain, or lots to carry - I ride pretty much everywhere, and almost always use one of these jackets.

[redwing]

Lots of experience about jackets. I have a leather jacket but thinking perhaps another jacket might be a good idea. I looked for several months before I decided upon a leather jacket. Leather because most bikers I talked to said leather. One said 10 feet for denim 20 feet for leather and skin past that. I'm sure the textile jackets are as good but have no experience sliding on pavement. The jacket I got claims 1.4 to 1.6 mm thick. Here is the link...

http://www.foxcreekleather.com/60-mens- ... cle-jacket

The jacket is very heavy in weight and stiff. I like it.

Someone mentioned Bellstaff ...I think ... and I did consider their jackets. I liked the Belstaff line.

http://www.britishmotorcyclegear.com/Jackets.asp

All I need is more MONEY. Hope you find a good jacket for your needs hbrandan.
Tomorrow I'm making a 100 mile ride to a BMW Dealer for the 12k and some other stuff. The 50 degree temps will be ok but the 30 % chance of rain might be the deal breaker. A light rain is ok. Almost a 2 hour ride.

Robert

[ShinySideUp]

I have the Atlantis 4 WATERPROOF leather armored suit. Thick, very comfortable, pricey, but so is skin. Back in October, I was hit my an illegally turning cager and slid 13 feet across the asphalt, which ground holes through the cordura nylon of my Kriega backpack. The jacket and pants had some slight gray areas on them. That's it! I'm sold.

I went down hard enough to crack my acetabulum (hip socket), but the trochanter was not damaged and, though sore in the hip and ribs for 2 months, I had not a single bruise.

That said, I have a Motoport kevlar mesh jacket I wear in temps over 80-85F. And add a water-soaked cooling vest over 95F.

And a Gerbings textile/armor microwire heated jacket for below 45F and/or very wet riding.

Of all, the Atlantis is the most comfortable over the widest range. And so far (about 6 months) it hasn't leaked a drop. And it just feels good! Motoport... not so much.

[hbrandan]

OK, well thanks a lot to everybody for their comments and opinions. For what I am reading, I think it just comes down to personal preference. Both materials seem to be as effective in the protection area, and maybe textile a little better with regards to weather (more versatile).
the "cool" looking factor goes to leather, but it is much heavier.
I live in South Florida, where temps don't go very low, but do plenty of riding further north, so I need some cold weather protection.
Thanks again for all the feedback, links, and opinions, I will continue my search now more educated than before, and will check back in with the group to let you know my decision.
cheers, and keep on riding.....

[rockbottom]

I think you've nailed it. Leather wins by a landslide on the "cool" factor, but is heavier, hotter, and more expensive. I love my leathers (an Alpinestars and Fox Creek) but, for me, the temperature range for a leather jacket (even with an insulted liner) is 50-80. Below that is a touring style textile; above that is a mesh textile.

[AncientMariner]

I have a beautiful Vanson leather jacket (the "Ike") which fits me as though it had been custom made. It is very cool looking. With appropriate layering, it is quite comfortable over a wide range of temperatures. When it gets wet, for example if you decide to wait before donning rain gear, it absorbs ten times its weight in water (Hyperbole, but you get the point) and is actually hard to put on and take off.

I also have the Roadcrafters Darien jacket and pants. I wear them all the time. They are waterproof. I no longer even pack rain gear. Again with layering, they are comfortable over the entire range of riding temperatures. They have back and pit vents which cause cooling air to flow through when you are moving. Lots of pockets. My 30 mph crash last fall, which totalled my 11 month old R12, resulted in small abrasion damages to the left knee and elbow. No injury to the rider. Although they are not inexpensive, they are way less than BMW and some of the other brands.

I don't know about other textile products but the Darien gets my recommendation.

Bruce