Disaster!!!! (I think)

[rdsmith3]

Mike Cam

well said. I mostly agree, except that BMW has put a lot of effort into introducing a lot of new models in the last few years, so that doesn't imply they will be leaving the motorcycle business in the next few years.

On the other hand, the main obstacle for me ever buying another new BMW is the pathetic dealer network. As I have said before, I live in northern NJ, in the greater NYC metro area. It is the most densely populated state in the US. Some of the wealthiest zip codes in the country are in this area. But I have to go at least 40 miles to get to a tiny dealer.

So if BMW is not going to stand behind their products, and I have to go an unreasonable distance to an indifferent dealer, then the future does not look very bright for them.

[OU812]

On a side note.....not sure if this has anything to do with a symptom of the failure, but I did notice that about 1000 miles before it happened, I was having trouble shifting down from third to second gear. The shift lever, just would not go down sometimes.

Not what I want to hear. I have an '04 with just over 24,000 miles. I just started experiencing the random hard shift from 3rd to 2nd. Does anyone else concur that this is a symptom of the CS issue?

Dave

My R1100RT has the same symptom but after 1000 miles no change. I hope it stays that way!

[SecondWind]

MikeCam;

Very well said and a sad but true-ringing commentary on most of Worldwide Corporations these days. You can forgive me if I thought for a moment that reputation would be a critical part of BMW's value equation at the Highest levels and that they would step up and cover major and troublesome equipment failures to Protect same. As we say here in my company, I was just having a brief "Logic Attack". Based on my age, I do remember when reputation was the penultimate measuring stick. Only a few Corporations have their eye on the ball anymore - the end customer!

RE:

OK, here's the information I've been able to find out from certified techs and BMW dealership owners. One of the worse things you can do to the drive line is to lug the engine below 3000 RPM. So if you do a lot of around town driving try and keep your revs at 3500 RPM's or higher. Also another thing that will be detrimental to the drive line is trying to roll on and accelerate when in the 6th, overdrive gear. If you're going to speed up and pass someone when cruising in 6th gear, always and I mean always down shift into 5th.

Proper maintenance and these driving tips could save you a lot of money and even more aggravation in the long run.

Thanks for the info Phil, however, I don't want any Motorcycle Technician or BMW Dealership owner telling me that I have to exhibit specific behavior with shifting and RPM do's and don'ts with my MC. By giving me special instructions on when to shift and that certain actions are "detrimental to the driveline" ( can't believe that BMW people are actually saying this!-not that I doubt you Phil) they are basically telling me that the BMW has an inherent weakness in the driveline. I have not had these concerns about any motorcycle that I have ever owned and I have never had a driveline failure....and I have dogged them all. Anyone who rides fast an/or sensible on wet roads knows that you exit a wet corner at least a gear taller than normal>>>> I guess that I am just dogging it and will have a driveline failure. DESIGN THE MOTORCYCLE TO LIVE REGARDLESS OF THE TREATMENT, BMW~~~~~! I

[boxermania]

PhilDin AZ, thank you for sharing the information albeit it isn't entirely true, fortunately no major damage to the bike or the operator will result.

here's the information I've been able to find out from certified techs and BMW dealership owners. One of the worse things you can do to the drive line is to lug the engine below 3000 RPM. So if you do a lot of around town driving try and keep your revs at 3500 RPM's or higher. Also another thing that will be detrimental to the drive line is trying to roll on and accelerate when in the 6th, overdrive gear. If you're going to speed up and pass someone when cruising in 6th gear, always and I mean always down shift into 5th.

1) Lugging the engine does very little if any damage to the transmission or clutch as the force (torque) will be below peak torque as the engine is in the lower rpm range. Most of what one might experience would be pinging of the engine, not a desirable occurrence, which will promptly alert the operator to the need to clutch in and drop down a couple of gears or in some estreme cases, stalling the engine for lack of power to pull an overdrive gear.

2) Any time that a burst of acceleration is required, to pass a vehicle or get away from a potentially dangerous situation it should be done on the gear that will provide the fastest acceleration, typically, on a gear where the rpm is above 4000 rpm so as to have a run to the 5650 rpm torque peak of the R1150 R engine.

Personal experimentation will define the proper gear for the situation.

[boxermania]

Columbia03BMW

My appologies if you felt that I was chastizing you for the wrong information. On the contrary, thank you for sharing the info, however, my point was that from my perspective what you were told by John is not a true statement.

My post was solely directed at clarifying what I felt was misinformation by a BMW Tech and whose potential result could be life threatening to the operator.

I do appreciate your initiative to do some research on your own for the benefit of the readers....

[ColumbiaBMW]

I do appreciate your initiative to do some research on your own for the benefit of the readers....

No problem, and my apologies as well if I misinterpreted your post. It's pretty hard to gauge someone's attitude, or tone when reading text.

Sorry.

As for me taking a little initiative for the benefit of the readers, I have to admit it was also for my benefit a little bit, to boost my confidence in my bike before I leave on this trip to the Rockies tomorrow.

[johnnyjs1]

I do appreciate your initiative to do some research on your own for the benefit of the readers....

No problem, and my apologies as well if I misinterpreted your post. It's pretty hard to gauge someone's attitude, or tone when reading text.

Sorry.

As for me taking a little initiative for the benefit of the readers, I have to admit it was also for my benefit a little bit, to boost my confidence in my bike before I leave on this trip to the Rockies tomorrow.

Have a great trip, be safe

[Buckster]

columbia,
Enjoy your ride. I just did an 1150 mile trip and didn't give it a thought. My bike just turned 30k and had not a problem.
I will admit that I am looking at alternative bikes, but I just love my R!

Anyone know anyone that has a Kawasaki Z750S? Seems like a nice bike.

[Jammess]

OK, my theory is that maybe most spline failures have occurred to bikes that are operated in densely populated areas of the country where riders are constantly up and down shifting and accelerasting and decelerating on machines that have no flywheels to help the riders shift smoothly thus causing extreme repeated shock to drivetrain components.

[iowabeakster]

Not so funny story about reputation.

My mom's financial advisor screwed up big time. It cost my mother several thousand dollars (and future tax deferred earnings). When she did her taxes and discovered the problem, she went to talk to him.

His response, "I know this is awful for you, but can you imagine what this will do to my reputation."



I find it strange that he doesn't see that all he needs to do is remedy his mistake ... and his reputation will be intact (if not much better than before).

The same is true for BMW. I bought my bike for perceived high quality standards. I like this bike, very very much (too much to list what I like about this bike). Problems of poor quality, and that are this expensive, are just unacceptable. That's a "lifestyle" that is beyond the means of most riders. BMW is going to realize that sometime.

[Lobo1625]

To whom may be concerned,

Spline failures are not an end all. There is alot of hysteria about it and I just want to point a few things out.

1. Spline failures are a real problem.
2. The clutch disk hub is too soft causing much of the wear on the input shaft, it could also be longer.
3. The transmission input shaft is too short.
4. The repair is not expensive, $200 and about 5-8 hours if you do it yourself. Stupid $$$ and a few days if you take it to a dealer.
5. Many bikes will run 20k-50k plus miles with no failures, but wear will be very evident.
6. A different bike will cure BMW R1150* spline failure.
7. Rider style or proper shifting technique is not the solution.

With that said, hold the flaming for a moment.

These are strictly my opinion and may be taken at just that. These are based on evidence presented to the community and my experience with the BMW's I've been around. I'm trying to have a clutch disk manufactured that will correct some of these issues, but finding information on the input shaft splines is proving quite difficult as is finding a manufacturer that has friction material at 165mm in diameter. I'm also trying to put together a post or series there of about how to inspect/lube or replace a clutch disk for those out there wishing the DIY (see: frugal) approach. The more information we acquire as a community the more we all benefit, and thank you to those who have documented your failure or called to find out frequency of failures at locals shops. Also thank you to those who have saved the damaged parts as a wear pattern is VERY obvious regardless of year/rider style/location or bike color. If i build up enough failed parts, I may just have to send a care package to BMW USA.

[boxermania]

There are many on this board that have suffered the failure and my heart goes out to them. Many others have been fortunate enough not to have had any problems as yet and I wish them wel.

Yet, some like Lobo 1625, CycleRob, MikeCam, yours truly amonst others have colaborated at different levels to attempt to bring the issue not only to the attentuion of BMW, but to current and future owners of the brand. Hopefully our efforts will be rewarded, in the meantime, even though I no longer own an R1150R I will continue to support the effort until we get BMW attention, we find a novel solution or I get bored.......

[johnnyjs1]

If anyone has the current issue of Motorcycle Consumer News, there is an article about the BMW FD failures

[Buckster]

Mine just came in the mail yesterday...I'll have to check this out.

[rdsmith3]

Would it be possible (and legal) for someone to scan the article and make it available?

[Buckster]

The article is not going to help BMW but it least it's truthful. Maybe they will get of their butts and do something about it. It is pertaining to final drive failures which is not the clutch spline failures most of us have been talking about(correct me if I'm wrong) so that was not even addressed in this article. I'm glad MCN is bring this to light in the magazine.

[towerworker]

To whom may be concerned,

Spline failures are not an end all. There is alot of hysteria about it and I just want to point a few things out.

1. Spline failures are a real problem.
2. The clutch disk hub is too soft causing much of the wear on the input shaft, it could also be longer.
3. The transmission input shaft is too short.
4. The repair is not expensive, $200 and about 5-8 hours if you do it yourself. Stupid $$$ and a few days if you take it to a dealer.
5. Many bikes will run 20k-50k plus miles with no failures, but wear will be very evident.
6. A different bike will cure BMW R1150* spline failure.
7. Rider style or proper shifting technique is not the solution.

With that said, hold the flaming for a moment.

These are strictly my opinion and may be taken at just that. These are based on evidence presented to the community and my experience with the BMW's I've been around. I'm trying to have a clutch disk manufactured that will correct some of these issues, but finding information on the input shaft splines is proving quite difficult as is finding a manufacturer that has friction material at 165mm in diameter. I'm also trying to put together a post or series there of about how to inspect/lube or replace a clutch disk for those out there wishing the DIY (see: frugal) approach. The more information we acquire as a community the more we all benefit, and thank you to those who have documented your failure or called to find out frequency of failures at locals shops. Also thank you to those who have saved the damaged parts as a wear pattern is VERY obvious regardless of year/rider style/location or bike color. If i build up enough failed parts, I may just have to send a care package to BMW USA.

Lobo----how so the cost of parts being only $200? All I have read say it is near $1000.

Wayne

[boxermania]

towerworker,

I think Lobo 1625 arrived at that figure based on what he found on his bike. Remember he did an inspection prior to a failure and he found the typical wear that leads to the failure in both the disc and the input shaft. The cost is pobably based on clutch disc replacement alone.

[Lobo1625]

Towerworker,

As Boxermania stated, that ~$200 cost is based only on a new clutch disk, slave cylinder gasket, pressure plate bolts, Honda Molly lube and a few miscellaneous tools you might need to purchase. I've also found some BMW shops will not sell things like the flywheel lock and clutch disk centering tool to the average consumer. There is really not a lot that runs up the cost as a DIY job, but the dealers have a heck of a markup on parts/labor. Additional costs may occur if you have a failed slave cylinder (as i found out I do) and if any parts i.e: fuel disconnects, get broken.

[johnnyjs1]

Called the dealer this morning. He said they will "hopefully" get to the tear down today. He also mentioned that a BMW Factory Rep. is coming in on Tuesday. Keeping my fingers crossed that he will show some "goodwill" towards my plight.