Oil Temp Gauge Install and Initial feedback...

[klrstix]

For those who like me find this information of interest, here is my initial experience with the Daytona (Oil) Temp Gauge this morning on my ride to work after having installed it this weekend.

As background, my commute to work each day is 12.5 miles. Approximately 3/4’s of this distance is covered at interstate speeds (60 to 70 MPH). And for those who will wonder, I did watch the road carefully. I was able to ascertain the temp at a glance without compromising safety…

The outside temp this morning was 37 (F) and the temp gauge read 39.5 (F). Upon starting the bike to let warm up (just long enough to get my jacket and helmet on… Approx 5 Minutes) the temp gauge immediately begins to rise. As I mount the bike to pull out of the driveway, the temp reads about 65 and rising…

The 2.5 miles of the trip is exiting the neighborhood and getting into the bustle of traffic on a very busy thoroughfare. Speeds do not rise above 40 MPH, usually closer to 30 due to traffic. Temps steadily rising and as I reach the Main stretch of interstate the temp gauge reads about 165 (F).

As I enter the interstate and speed increases the rate of increase for the temp gauge slows. It takes about a mile for the temps to increase 10 degrees to 175. At this point the temp gauge drops slowly to about 169 and steady fluctuates back and forth between 167 and 170. As an interesting side note, there are stretches of road that is in the shade and the temp gauge was quick to respond to the entrance and exit of these shaded stretches by a measure of 3 degrees or so. On exiting the Interstate therefore decreasing, speed the temp gauge reflects this by settling down a little around 166.

The last stretch of the trip to work is about 1 mile in length and the speed is around 40 to 45 MPH. During this stretch the temp gauge never exceeds 166.

Having arrived at work about 15 to 20 minutes after leaving the house, I find the outside temp is still 37. I did not observe the rate of drop for the temp after getting parked.

As some will recall this project was started for me due to a link Boxermania provided regarding Lubrication and the properties of oil in that process. So, based upon the info in this article my oil would not even get to “operating temps” (as I recall stated in the article: all oils are designed to operate at 210 to 220) when outside temps are below 40.

I am sure the real internal temps are 15 to 20 degrees higher than given on the gauge but that would still put it below “operating temp” range.

There is no point in this narrative other than to provide the brief observation of riding in colder temps and the impact on oil temps.

[boxermania]

klrstix

Good job.....I'm sure you will gain considerable knowledge regarding the operation of your bike, especially during extreme temperature ranges.

Your last statement is not entirely correct as it is supposed to read: "Typical OEM design parameters call for the oil temperature of IC engines in the 170 F to 220 F range"

So that being said just be aware, on hot days and stop and go traffic, when the oil temp gets to the 240 F range and look for a way to get air to the engine and or let the bengine cool down, for longevity purposes.

[CycleRob]

klrstix,

I've had my Daytona LCD temp gauge for several years now and it is priceless when you're stuck in Summer gridlock. As for Winter riding, anything below 45F really doesn't need the oil coolers, unless you're in city traffic. That's why, with a temp gauge, I recommend to carefully/gently stuff a half of an old hand towel into the backside of each cooler tunnel. That almost completely stops the airflow and the oil temp will exceed 200F and more. That delay/lag you noticed at 170F was caused by the oil thermostat opening and allowing almost hot oil to be cooled in the radiators. Summertime it's a good thing, as much higher temps are right around the corner. Wintertime it's a bad thing, especially short trips in 37F. Human intervention is required for peak performance. You'll be pleased how your engine gets up to operating temps with the towels. All the finning on the crankcase and cylinders plus the frigid massive thermal mass of the transmission, frame and super cooling from the 37 degree air blast provide plenty of cooling. If it gets too hot for the way you're riding, like 230F, stop and remove just one towel. Warmer weather like 55F + short or slo-go trip, use one towel. You'll eventually learn how to control the oil temp without a second thought.

Try the towel mod. You'll thank me later.

.

[jfslater98]

carefully/gently stuff a half of an old hand towel into the backside of each cooler tunnel

Hate to sound like a doofus, but when I tried this it didn't work for me. Moving air pushed one of the towels out onto the road, and the other was sticking out like a tongue before I pulled over and grabbed it. I used small red shop towels, maybe that's where I went wrong? Any pictures you have would be much appreciated. Morning temps are supposed to get back into the mid 20s tomorrow, so I might ride

[klrstix]

CycleRob,

Yeah, as I think about your post I envision ways to really get stupid with this temp control system. Such as installing some form of hydraulically actuated louver system (think blinds over a window) that opens up air flow based upon temperature readings. Sorry but thats just the way my mind works...

On the other hand I am old enough to know that usually the simpler solutions are the best!!

Our temps are supposed to reach the mid 70's this afternoon so I am going to be interested to observe temps under those conditions. This is turning into a real educational moment for me.

[boxermania]

There is always something to learn around every corner, especially if the bonding with the bike gets enhanced......Confucious

[Sunbeemer]

hydraulically actuated louver system (think blinds over a window) that opens up air flow based upon temperature readings

No apologies necessary...I think that's a good idea! To make it simpler, maybe you could use a bimetallic spring (like the ones that actuated the automatic chokes on carburators) that would sense the oil temp?

I've considered installing thermostatically controlled fans on the back side of the oil cooler cowls to force more air through them in slow traffic situations during our sweltering summers. I haven't found a fan rugged enough yet...

[CycleRob]

jfslater98,

Again, the instruction was to use 1/2 of a hand towel in each tunnel. My bathroom hand towel was just measured at 16" x 24" (40.6 x 61 cm). Besides it's size, it has thickness and bulk to it compared to those thin flimsy red shop towels I know so well. Without admitting to speeding, which is illegal, I have been at 5,000+ RPM in 6th gear without the towels blowing out.

I too thought of making blank-off plates for each oil cooler inlet side, in front of the radiator, and I still have the heavy paper templates I made years ago, in my "50R box of stuff". Living in Pennsylvania and riding the 18 miles (29km) to work whenever it was over 38F (3.3C) I utilized those towels a lot. Now retired and living in Georgia, I'm still asleep when you are at work and can wait until the afternoon sun really warms things up, often well beyond those inhospitable PA temps. This owner intervention topic has me rejuvenated enough to make something useful for my bike. Even though 2 wheel traveling is optional and on my terms, I think it's time to break the paper templates out and turn them into custom thin sheet steel panels. They'll tuck behind the plastic cooler cover's overhanging lip and will be retained by something minimalist/hidden or "cool looking". The radiator's thin fins are too easily damaged if you aren't 110% careful with positioning the towels.
Before you ask for pictures and a post of the blank-off plates, realize it may have to wait. I just finished building my own (working!) ATX tower PC from parts and a 22" LCD (55.9cm) ordered at Newegg.com. My post on the $408 PC build will appear in Off Topic in a day or 4 , so go there then (NOT HERE now) to respond.

I also checked into the miniature 12V fan adaptation into the cooler tunnels and a trip to Radio Shack showed that is do-able with inner guide tunnel notching/cutting, but judging by the fan's necessarily small size, the air flow rates would likely be more token than impressive. Because of routine near overheating in my summer rides, the fan costs are low and any airflow is a good thing, it's on my 2009 to-do list. Check out these 12V fans:
http://www.buyextras.com/dc12vfans.html




.

[klrstix]

As a quick update on the operating temp info...

Temps got up to the low 70's yesterday afternoon. At hwy speeds (60 to 70) the temp gauge settled in around 205. Once I got back into stop and go traffic (which was about a 2 mile stretch) temp gauge quickly rose to the 215-220 range.

As of this point my thinking is stop and go traffic in the 90's will produce brutal temps. This "cooling fan" upgrade is actually beginning to look like my next project...

[towerworker]

CycleRob said and I quote... "Without admitting to speeding, which is illegal, I have been at 5,000+ RPM in 6th gear without the towels blowing out."


No doubt the bike was on the center stand during this exercise and of course the towels would not blow out.

[jfslater98]

jfslater98,

Again, the instruction was to use 1/2 of a hand towel in each tunnel ... it has thickness and bulk to it compared to those thin flimsy red shop towels I know so well.

.

Thanks for the explanation, Rob. I look forward to the "plate mod". I may do something cheesy with card stock and some duct tape, as I like the idea of prevailing winds holding the solution against the problem. Not sure I like the idea of something sturdy but malleable fluttering near my moving rear wheel.

I also eagerly await the build report on your rig from Newegg. I am debating the build vs. buy issue as well.

Also good to see Towerworker here, reminding me of my folly of riding in 19F weather this morning. I was sweating bullets coming out of my driveway, and the sheen on 287 get me "warm" on the way into work.

[boxermania]

klrstix

What you have experienced is perfectly normal for our neck of the woods the thing to find out is how long time or distance it takes to get to the 230 F - 240 F which would be the point to either find some clean air (like getting away from the stop and go) or pulling off and shutting the bike down. You are in an enviiable position because the information is staring you in the face, what you nedd is Plan B........congrats.

Ahhh....this post is getting interesting and inventive.

First, I think that the hot weather operation can be the most damaging to the engine.....high temps and stop and go traffic. That being said, some sort of thermostatically controlled fan set to kick in at 220 F and off at 210 with sufficient capacity would be a place to start.

When it comes to fans, I would stay away from the flat blade 5 - 6 blade fans and select the twisted blade ones, like the 60 mm and 80 mm types shown in Robbie's link as they push more air, also notice that the motors (pancake type) are larger and therefore should have larger bearings. Usually the fan description states the amount of flow. The biggest rproblem I see is the fact that these motors are not designed for outdoor operation, specially in the presence of H20....nough said.

In the case of cold operation and a way to block some of the cooling, I thought of using one of those plastic fiberglass spreaders (body filler) and using it, after proper trim and fit, as an air block on the front of the cooler, one or both.

While typing the above something else came to mind as a solution to controlling the high temps....

One could add a third cooler, between the original two, in the front of the engine and high up so there is no interference with the front fender. The cooler on my old Suzuki Bandit 1200S comes to mind as they have the size and are reasonably easy to source. The neatest thing to do, and I would have been crazy enough to do it was to do away with the factory set up and go to a front mount fan/cooler arrangement.

Good luck......

[CycleRob]

Last fall I worked on a police model R1100RT, It had a discreetly hidden single large center radiator with a bigass fan!! Since it's designed for the hostile M/C environment, THAT's the way to go! I've seen custom bike builders hide radiators laying down under the back seat, proof that creativity with determination makes it work.

[Buckster]

I really have no idea about this stuff but I do wonder if going to extremes to cool the engine down when it is already oil cooled is all that neccessary. I mean I still see airheads running around for 30-40 years with no oil cooling or water cooling or fan cooling. H-D and Star motorcycles are still making air cooled engines with no kind of cooling at all with a back cylinder head that receives hardly any cool air at all. Does a V-twin run cooler than a flat twin at a standstill?

I totally understand that excessive heat is bad on the engine. It just seems like it is a rare occurrance and I guess I hardly ever hear of bike being ruined by being overheated.

OK...I'm ready for my beatdown now...

[towerworker]

I agree with Buckster. I know there are ways we can make small improvements to our rides but we're talking a fairly major so-called improvement. Wouldn't we be better off just making sure we use the appropriate motor oil and change it regularly?

[ProductUser]

After 68k miles, I really don't think there's a need for additional cooling fans. I ride in temps well above 100f for at least four months each year, some of this is in stop-and-go traffic on a very congested highway, with no heating issues. I do use synthetic oil to help combat the excessive heat, though.

PU

[boxermania]

tower and P.U.

The intent of the post is not to encourage or recomend users to add to or modify the standard cooling arrangement but merely visualize the potential options that could be available. Like i said, some of us might be a bit crazy to try some of the mods.....just to establish a baseline.

[philbytx]

Don't overthink this or get your undies in a bundle about overheating
For those in hot climates, like me in Texas.....just run Synthetic 15w50 in your motors.
Synthetics have a higher boiling point and dissipate heat way better than dino oils.

I run Mobil1 ("Old formula") silver top/red label 15w50 in my R1150RT for 6k miles and am still bedding in my R1100R motor with Castrol 20w50 on 3k oil changes but will change to Mobil1 15w50 when it smooths out.

[Chuxter]

My only question is: if the oil system to the coolers is thermostat controlled...why the towels? What am I missing here? If we dont make operating temp, the thermo doesnt open and allow oil to the coolers. Sri to be an arse...
de Chux

[Sunbeemer]

Boxermania wrote:

One could add a third cooler, between the original two, in the front of the engine and high up so there is no interference with the front fender

Yes! This would cool the oil better, but I wonder if there would be enough airflow through it due to the restricted spacing behind it (i.e. between it and the front of the engine). I'll bet small tranny cooler would work if it were mounted a couple inches in front of the engine just below the telelever... then add a carbon fiber belt cover.