R1200R or Moto Guzzi Griso?

[Dan-A]

Make sure you get heated grips.

[TAL2GK]

FWIW - there are two white '09 R12R's - usual ABS/centerstand/OBC equipped at a dealer in NJ who is going out of business. I have heard numbers of $12.5k, and BMW is tossing in a set of sidebags (you'll end up having to buy the bag-mounts.) Since they're new - full warranty and all that good stuff.

Thanks for the information. Everything else being equal, I'd prefer to give my local shop the business - so with that said ... any reason why a BMW shop that's NOT going out of business couldn't give the same deal at ~$12.5k? I don't know if BMW bikes are like most new cars, where the manufacturer provides back end money on last year's models. If so, $12.5k wouldn't be out of line for a 2009.

I just came back from my local shop and had a chance to ride the R12. It really is a significantly different bike than mine. (Not that there's anything wrong with my old Bavarian girl). There are used ones out there that are a year or two old for $10-$11.5k on eBay and other internet sites ... but if I could pick up a new '09 in the exact color I want (biarritz blue) with bags, ABS/CS/OBC for $12.5k ... I think I'd do it. (For some reason, all the used ones are Alpine White or Granite Grey).

[deilenberger]

Thanks for the information. Everything else being equal, I'd prefer to give my local shop the business - so with that said ... any reason why a BMW shop that's NOT going out of business couldn't give the same deal at ~$12.5k? I don't know if BMW bikes are like most new cars, where the manufacturer provides back end money on last year's models. If so, $12.5k wouldn't be out of line for a 2009.

Dunno - you can always ask them. Supposedly the $12.5K is invoice price for it. If there is back end money - you might be able to make a deal near that. If not - they won't be a local shop for long if they give the bikes away.

I just came back from my local shop and had a chance to ride the R12. It really is a significantly different bike than mine. (Not that there's anything wrong with my old Bavarian girl). There are used ones out there that are a year or two old for $10-$11.5k on eBay and other internet sites ... but if I could pick up a new '09 in the exact color I want (biarritz blue) with bags, ABS/CS/OBC for $12.5k ... I think I'd do it. (For some reason, all the used ones are Alpine White or Granite Grey).

At $11.5k for an '07/'08 on eBay (and I've got a watch on ebay, Cycle Trader and Craigslist so I see about all of them showing up for sale in the US. $11.5 is an '07 usually and rarely an '08, $10k will be an '07 for sure) - vs $12.5K new with full warranty? And BMW tossing in the bags on the $12.5k one? Just the extra 2 years of warranty are worth $1k to me - not counting buying a used bike unseen, and then having to get it shipped to you. If the used bike is exactly what you want and nicely farkled there might be some attraction, but if you're talking apples to apples - saving $1k isn't worth it. Biarritz blue is a late '09 intro bike - the blue wasn't available at the beginning of the model year. The big change for the beginning of '09 was dropping the stripe option on the black ones (the fastest one), and offering white. Blue only showed up at least mid-year if not later. Finding one for $12.5k is going to be hard to impossible IMHO.

[deilenberger]

Make sure you get heated grips.

Good point. I tend to assume all BMWs come with heated grips now - but it is an option, and apparently some of the strippers didn't come with any options. The two white ones I mentioned do have heated grips.

[Kieran R1200R]

Let the specs do the talking.

The grizzo dispite it's look comes in at 222kg dry.
The R1200R is 198kg, that's a difference of 24kg.
That's a bag of cement!
You wont throw it around like the R, and for most that's where the wow factor is.
Also you have to pull that extra bag of cement up when braking!
I have to admit the Grisso and the Sport are good looking bikes and I lusted after the Sport, but it's like being in Love with a Fat women.
The weight is to much to put up with, and no slimming tablets is going to trim her!

[TAL2GK]

At $11.5k for an '07/'08 on eBay (and I've got a watch on ebay, Cycle Trader and Craigslist so I see about all of them showing up for sale in the US. $11.5 is an '07 usually and rarely an '08, $10k will be an '07 for sure)

I appreciate your insight and thanks for the feedback. The problem I'm having is the money difference, but your points are all true. I had my last (current) bike for 10 years and if I keep my next one anywhere near as long, I'm not going to be happy if I get the wrong color, wrong options, or inherit someone else's problem. Having said that, here's the rub - some people due to whatever circumstances probably related to the state of the economy, are desperate to sell their sleds. I am thankful I'm not that desperate, but nevertheless there it is. Just yesterday, a good looking 2008 R12R with the Premium Package (Heated Grips, ABS, OBC, White Signals, Center Stand, & bag mounts), which also had BMW Sport Windshield and BMW bags sold on eBay for $9200http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... AUS%3A1123. It only had 4,600 miles on the clock and was still under warranty. I bid on it, but ironically the auction closed when I was at the BMW shop getting my R12 cherry popped. On this very website's for sale section, there's a guy selling his 2008 with similar equipment (Givi bag, not BMW, but with Stability Control and fewer miles) for an asking price of $11,499. I hesitate to bring it up, because if logic was any part - I'd buy his myself (especially considering he's only a 2 1/2 hour ride from my house).

Not to sound Favreian in my decision making process, but that's my situation. Brand new 2009, but a year old as soon as I leave the dealership ... or a 2008 for anywhere between $3-$4k less. There are new blue ones out there, but he'd have to swap with another dealer. That being said, bottom dollar would be unlikely and used becomes more attractive.

I'll do the mental calistenics and be sure to report back. I've also found a Guzzi for $7k, but I think I found my answer when I mounted the R12R. Thanks again, everyone, for your input.

[Dan-A]

The problem I'm having is the money difference, but your points are all true. I had my last (current) bike for 10 years and if I keep my next one anywhere near as long, I'm not going to be happy if I get the wrong color, wrong options, or inherit someone else's problem.

If you get everything you want in the neighborhood of the price you want to pay and you can afford it, you will forget about the price difference in three weeks.

[Mollygrubber]

I disagree: I believe he'll forget the price difference in three hours (or less), or after the first peg-dragging 80mph on-ramp, whichever comes first.

Good luck whichever option you choose TAL2GK, and FWIW I admire your bold choice of color.

Peter

[deilenberger]

The ebay one - if in good shape - was a great deal. That was the Z-Technic windshield (not terribly popular around here) and dunno who made the aftermarket seat (mebbe Corbin?) Price was good if there weren't a lot of fees involved. Looked - sez "Buyer to pay $185 documents fee and $18.50-30 Days temporary tag fee. " so they're nailing you an additional $200 to shuffle some paper. Thing is - that was the winning bid because no one bid higher against the winning bidder - you really don't know where it would have gone if you bid on it or how high the winning bidder was willing to go.

But - whatever - now that you know what you want.. the next good deal to come along you can be serious on. Black/w/white wasn't my first choice - but I've grown to like it (and the very frequent compliments it gets.)

[Dan-A]

Black/w/white wasn't my first choice - but I've grown to like it (and the very frequent compliments it gets.)

That's because it is the best color!

[tonytokai]

Hello is Mauro
And I write from Italy in our group of friends there are people who are guzzi "almost all new models," are very well migliaorata than 10 years ago, the problems I see all brands bikes have + or - several problems, this had little testing IN COMPANY ... I have and I drive a BMW R1200R BMW for 15 years and guzzi for 5 years "1985" old-nothing to compare with the Guzzi d '
today ... I apologize for my English ...

[TAL2GK]

Well - your English is a lot better than my Italian.

I put a deposit down on a new '09 R1200R the other day and will be picking it up as soon as they wave their magic wand to make it Biarritz Blue. They're bringing in a '10 R from another shop and swapping all the colored bits to make the '09 change colors. (Their idea to take advantage of the '09 bags promotion).

I still LOVE the looks of the Griso, though, and wouldn't mind having one in the stable. Now that I know about esnipe, I might use it to my advantage next year to pick up a used black Griso for a song. There was a red one that went for $6500 last week on eBay, so the depreciation is significant. In the mean time, I'll be enjoying my new ride and someone else will be enjoying my old ride.

arrivederci

[Boxer-Lust]

TAL2GK,you will be very happy with your decision to buy a R1200R.
I love Guzzis too but since the origional LeMans of the Late 70's until the mid 80's they really had no product worth buying.No dealers and parts network seem to close their fate.Looks like Moto Guzzi might close even under PIAGGIO holding the umbrella.If you look at the Griso,Breva or Norge the BMW R1200R,R1200RT and R1200S models were much superior.Same with the GS compared to the Stelvio.
Why no "M-G 1100 LeMans" with the aircooled 110hp 8v V-twin as a bike to replace BMW's great R1100S is beyond me.The italians have great passion but don't get it when it comes to a product that actually sells.Too bad for the great name,image and heritage of Moto Guzzi...
How much did you pay for your R1200R?$12500 seems like the dealer cost and o.k. for a dealership going under but at dealers who want to survive and unlikely scenario.I thought 1000 off and bags courtesy of BMW as also 500 thrown in (the check is still in the mail) by BMW for BMWRA or BMWMOA members a too good of a deal to pass up as I did not want to buy a cheaper used 07 or 08 model still with the old tranny and brake line/antenna ring recall.
Did you say a dealer takes the tank,plastic off an 2010 R1200R?
That would mean that the new DOHC-heads will be only on GS and RT for next season and the R1200R as we know it in production for another model year...
The new motor will get 5 hp more for the GS;105 to 110 who knows if it goes to 115 for the RT and future R?
For guys who adjust the valves themselves the current engine will be preferable as the new DOHC heads will need shims and more adjusting time...
Enjoy!

[TAL2GK]

I didn't get the $12.5k deal, because my bike has more on it and - you're right - the dealer needs to make a little something to stay in business. I got a deal similar to yours (minus the BMWMOA member bonus). I feel ok about the deal, but not happy about all the dealer fees (doc fee + license fee = $337?!! Another almost $500 for "handling"! ) Those really roast my shorts, but time was limited and I wanted the bike & they were willing to play games to make the color right - so there you have it.

As for the color change - they said they've done it a few times before. They did a search of local dealers and couldn't find any Biarritz '09s - but found a '10 ... so that's what they're bringing in. I guess its just the tank, fender, and side panels - but they told me the bikes were identical. In fact, they offered me the same discount on a '10 (although there is a ~$300 price increase for next year's MSRP). I chose the '09 and free bags vs. a '10 for $300 more and no bags. Here's hoping that was a wise move ...

I've received a lot of good advice on here - as well as the Guzzi board. It was brought up earlier in this thread, but it seems to be true that 90% of their forum's membership is made of old timers on older Guzzi's. Riding the Griso was like wrestling a bull. I wouldn't want to do it for long periods at a time, but when I was doing it I felt like an uber-man! Riding the R12R felt like mounting a thoroughbred by comparison.

[Mollygrubber]

Riding the R12R felt like mounting a thoroughbred by comparison

Are you talking about Catherine Zeta-Jones?

Sorry, couldn't resist. I have a penchant for the crude.

[Bill Stevenson]

BMW and Moto Guzzi motorcycles seem to appeal to the same kind of riders. I have never met a person who rides either brand that does not admire the other. Of course there are trade-offs as Harry so ably pointed out, but really you can't make a bad choice between the two marques. In general I prefer riding Beemers, but I love to look and marvel at the sheer panache of a Goose. I just love these bikes.

Regards,

Bill

[Mollygrubber]

Three new Guzzi's seen at the Milan bike show - wow - not your dad's Guzzi's...

http://www.motorcycle.com/news/eicma-20 ... 88934.html

[TAL2GK]

WOW! If one of these two came with the bike, I've made a horrible decision!

The Guzzi's I looked at were certainly beautiful, but they've got nothing on these. I wonder what the Bavarian cycle show models look like. One area the Italians have a decided advantage in.

[mogu83]

Those Models in fourty years:





A fourty year old Beemer:





Questions??? get it?

[celticus]

Dang Harry ! Good point.

Mark