Feathering the Clutch

[BLAIR1200R]

On my commute home I exit to a four way stop that often backs up 9+ cars.
Using a technique I've always used in low speed, I simultaneously feather the clutch, apply the rear break and increase throttle. This "tightens" the bike and keeps me from weaving / wobbling... works great, done this for years, can virtually come to a stop and not brake or put my foot down... on Japanese bikes.

I've noticed a burning smell when doing this on the R1200R. Assume this is because of the dry clutch and also assume that should I stop using this technique... look forward to your recommendations...

[mikes]

I use a similar technique slow speed maneuvering u-turns in tight areas. Basically increase revs and let out clutch till it bites and use the back brake increase or decrease speed. re the smell i suspect your revs are a touch high and the clutch is suffering under the load. however if you are using this sparingly you shouldn't have a problem. You might want to adjust the amount of throttle.

[ammolab]

Can't you just vary the clutch engagement to adjust low speed?

I don't understand the "use the rear brake and come to a stop..and not brake or put my foot down". The rear brake is using the brake.

But yes, if you can smell the clutch you are abusing it and will wear it out prematurely.

[moto-m]

Could it be the exhaust headers getting hot - if you're using higher revs but the bike isn't moving there will be very little airflow to cool them down - it doesn't take long for them to overheat.

[BLAIR1200R]

Thanks all ... mikes described the technique much better than I... I'm probably reving too high... throttle response on the R12R very different from the CBR.

... or maybe I'll just pass up the exit and the 4-way stop and spend an extra 10 min on the bike coming home... more ride time is always a better thing!

[mikes]

might sound a bit naff but if you can find an open empty carpark after hours and get a feel for slow speed work with cluch and throttle you soon will get the feel of your bike. Good luck with it and you will do just fine.

[seangd]

Riding the clutch is riding the clutch. That smell is definitely the clutch, and 'yes' you're wearing it out. The clutch likes being all the way in or all the way out. The in between point - where it's grabbing - should be kept as short as possible.

[mikes]

This the technique I was talking about but in a little more detail. It will feel funny at first trying to master going as slow as you possible can but after a while you will be amazed what bike control you will have in the traffic and just how tight you can do u-turns. I have used this technique for over 20 years and never had a clutch issue at all. If you practice it will become second nature. Please note I got this from a how-to website and I can not take credit for the information below:

"The second technique you must learn is how to use the friction zone. The friction zone is the area on the clutch between fully open and fully closed. In other words, as you let the clutch out and the bike starts to move, you're entering the friction zone. An easy way to become accustomed to riding the bike in the friction zone is to practice the slow race. That is simply going as slow as you possibly can without releasing the clutch completely.

The third technique is the proper use of the rear or controlling brake. With the motorcycle in the friction zone, keep your foot on the rear brake and feather it as the bike starts to move. By doing this you are making the motorcycle think it's going faster than it is. When you apply power and keep your foot on the rear brake, it keeps the motorcycle from falling over at low speeds which is where most people have a problem. I've never heard of anyone having problems balancing their motorcycle at 50 or 60mph. If you don't use these techniques at 5 or 10mph the motorcycle feels clumsy and wants to fall over on it's side. AVOID using the front brake at all costs when riding at parking lot speeds, as applying the front brake at 5 or 10mph with the handle bars turned even slightly, will pull you to the ground like a magnet. Of course, once above parking lot speeds, you must use the front brake as well as the rear brake, as 70% of your braking power comes from the front brake."

[grwrockster]

Single plate dry (air-cooled) clutches overheat much, much quicker than wet multiplate (i.e. most japanese bike) ones. I'd second what seangd had to say for sure. Having the clutch fighting against the brake is always going to have one outcome sooner or later - a fried and ruined clutch plate way before it's time.

Same goes for hard starts - if you 'slip' the dry clutch with heaps of revs on and hard acceleration -then it'll overheat straight away, smell bad and slip till it cools down - dry clutches just don't do well at this game (even wet multiplate clutches would rather you didn't do this to them - it's just not as noticeable). If you want to get out of the gate hard, then get the clutch fully home asap, then whack on the beans - the torque of the engine will do the rest (but without frying the clutch in the process).

We all have to feather the clutch in traffic etc. However, I always engage Neutral as I roll to a stop at a light, and don't ever drag the rear brake while slipping the clutch at the same time. Feather/slip the clutch and fully disengage and coast for brief spells (e.g to run at slow pace of a traffic queue to lights) OR trail a little rear brake to shed some speed (with clutch fully disengaged if we are talking slow-speed manouevring) - but you don't need to do them at the same time. I always try to run with the clutch fully engaged as much of the time as possible - my bike'll run down to just above tickover in 1st without complaining, and you can feather as well without really applying any more revs.

[tinytrains]

This is one of the complaints police have with Beemers and Harleys. They like to drag the rear break and feather the clutch for parades and low speed work. You can do all day on a old police Kawi, but the dry clutch bikes do not like it.

[mogu83]

Scot - I'm about 99% sure the harley clutch runs in the oil shared with the primary chain. Maybe I shouldn't mention it here (Beemer list) but I have a few friends that are 'Harley Guys" and occasionally I get my hands into one of those engines.

[mikes]

There will always be differing points of view either way and that's what's good about this forum. It works for me and I have never had a problem with a clutch smelling or burning with my RRs. Never had a problem dragging the rear brake when it was need even in a corner..... Yikes! No problems and all good as far as I'm concerned. Whatever works for one might not work for another person. I guess the question still remains .... to drag or not to drag that is the question.....

[redwing]

I had almost the same question and placed a topic about the subject. A rider with an R1150R placed a reply saying he used a method like the ones discussed here. The rider seemed to be using a technique like yours for some time except perhaps with less revs and sparingly. Might do a search finding the thread and see what you think. This is the topic "dry clutch damage and slow ride."
IMHO... I do agree a clutch can be permanently damaged by feathering or riding the clutch to much. A small amount of power / torque to the rear tire gives stability....just a little push. My experience in riding is only a couple of years (not much) and all on the R1200R.

Robert

[tinytrains]

Scot - I'm about 99% sure the harley clutch runs in the oil shared with the primary chain. Maybe I shouldn't mention it here (Beemer list) but I have a few friends that are 'Harley Guys" and occasionally I get my hands into one of those engines.

My mistake. Never owned one, just assumed they would be dry since they have a separate transmission.

[pistonbroke]

hi blair and mike
just read the clutch thread. its all good at low speed . front brake is for the brave .
emm , its somthing that i have done for 30 years , little technical trick on a trails bike waiting to do a almost vertical drop , stopped and balancing, front brake on clutch on bite point so front being pushed forward compressing forks both feet on the pegs and then let go of the brake , down the drop in the chosen gear . can hold this position for up to 30 seconds with both feet on pegs . just moving legs either way to keep balance . can ride to work on the 1200r and not even put feet down some days ...
the idea or putting the back brake on a bit works a treat , the clutches are dry and these smell come and go quite often ,i have a very steep drive and have to negotiate going past a couple of cars that always give me no thought , feathering the clutch is a daily thing and sometimes i get this smell , five years on the clutch does still work , so i would not worry to much about it.
another trick with the back brake is when doing a u turn at low speed is to just rest your foot on the rear and yes it will tighten up the turn and feel more stable . also at speed try this say for instance that you hit a corner to fast (OH poo) we have all been there. once you realise that you are to fast ,just trail the rear and it will tighten the bike up , and the bike will turn in more to take the corner safely, please try this on a few bends first before temping the real thing . only light pressure needed , keep throttle on , then try with less throttle and then none , its a life saver... racers technique..
alright for some to say you should be reading the road ahead . real world and diesel on it or things get in the way last minute .
racing you are out to win full stop .
clean pants in the ready .
going back to the back brake ,it would be a good idea to go to a empty car park with a few traffic cones and practice these techniques,and when that becomes easy ,do the same on a slight slope , lot harder . surprising how good that you can get manouvering you bike around at low speed .
piston.

[mikes]

Piston, spot on mate all good tips. Riding bikes is like any sport you need to practice in order to maintain and develop your skills. Slow speed bike skills is really is something we all need to master because its a real-world riding skill. All so using the rear brake to steady up the bike going into or in a corner or in it is another skill that is a life saver. Sure we need to read the road/corner well before but it doesn't all ways go to plan and its a great tool to have.



Cheers

[qfman]

I've used this technique for many years with no ill-effects. Gas stations, slow traffic, parking stations etc. Having the engine reciprocationg at higher revs increases stability - much like a spinning top wants to stand up until it spins too slowly. It's particularly handy for very tight, slow speed U-turns.

The key to avoiding wear is to use about 3000rpm and very little clutch. If you can smell it you're using too much.

Tom

[mikes]

Tom well put and spot on.