Speed-shifting

[echo42kp]

I have a 2002 1150r with 10K miles on it. I just bought the bike a few months ago and love it. I am also a new rider. I recently picked up speed shifting and wanted get an opinion on this site as to the practice.

So should i get in the habit of doing this? Can I damage my bike?

[riceburner]

Could you explain what "Speed shifting" is?

The gearboxes on our bikes aren't like those on most other bikes so often can't really be hurried.

[echo42kp]

speed shifting is shifting up without engaging the clutch. It involves putting pressure on the shifter from underneath (going up) and rolling off the throttle slightly. This will shift into the next gear without engaging the clutch

[f4tweet]

Why? You can put just a little pressure on the clutch lever to just take some pressure of the clutch as you shift. These transmissions
are not made to do that like racing transmissions.

[DMM]

There are reviews of the R1150R (articles can be found on line) that mention that these bikes CAN be shifted in this manner (clutch-less).
However, as others here will attest, repeated practice of this is likely to shorten the lifespan of parts that are expensive to replace.

Elsewhere on this site is at least one thread/discussion of shifting with light use of the clutch. This seems to be the best practice for these (or most any bike). Look up "pre-load" and "preload" and "shifting" on this site and you'll find the discussion threads, if you are interested.

[mcmarcia]

I agree w/ what has been posted. I know on my dirt bike, wr250f, that shifting up without the clutch is is ok, but downshifting puts more strain on the tranny, although it works both ways. I think on the beemers, probably best to use the clutch most of the time for maximum tranny life. Fresh Full syn tranny fluids probably a good idea for you, easy, cheap insurance.

[Ol' Jeffers]

I have a 2002 1150r with 10K miles on it. I just bought the bike a few months ago and love it. I am also a new rider. I recently picked up speed shifting and wanted get an opinion on this site as to the practice.

So should i get in the habit of doing this? Can I damage my bike?

If you're a new biker then get to know the basics first and get them off so you don't have to think about doing them.
Different ways of doing things will only complicate your learning curve and you may wind up doing many things poorly.
So my advice would be to stick with 'ordinary' procedures before you learn stuff you really don't need on this bike.
Just my 10cents worth.

[sweatmark]

speed shifting is shifting up without engaging the clutch. It involves putting pressure on the shifter from underneath (going up) and rolling off the throttle slightly. This will shift into the next gear without engaging the clutch

Yes, it's possible to make clutchless upshifts on these bikes, but not recommended. Here's why:

1. BMW boxers use single plate dry clutch; that big clutch disc (relative to conventional motorcycle multi-disc clutch packs) carries a lot of inertia, and popping into a higher gear results in a rapid deceleration of the drivetrain and need to dissipate flywheel/clutch energy.

2. The R1150 bikes have a design flaw in direct connection with the clutch disc: a transmission input shaft with splined section too short for complete engagement with the clutch hub, resulting in cantilever forces and elevated spline wear. You pop the tranny into next higher gear va a clutchless shift, and the inertia described in #1 will be applied as shock force directly on the splines.

During track days, I always use clutchless upshifts when accelerating down the straights, but only with multi-disc clutch bikes, and never with the BMW boxer.

[grwrockster]

This bike certainly will do clutchless upshifts (as others say - never downshift without the clutch on any bike).
It is of pretty limited benefit though, but I find that (like most bikes) a positive and fast gearchange technique (with the clutch) is the way to go (not necessarily accelerating like the devil, but a swift gearchange even when cruising will always be smoother than a ponderous gearchange).

Consequently, I don't do clutchless upshifts all that often. But... I'm still a bit of a big kid [just occasionally] and still can't resist pulling the odd wheelie . I'm no stunt king btw, I just get a buzz out of doing my best to utilise the techniques needed to manage a half-decent wheelie (by my standards - & If you want to upshift into a higher gear and still keep the front wheel airborne, then a clutchless upshift is an essential technique).

As others have posted, this bike has a lot of inertia in the crank/drivetrain with all that mass and 2 paint-tin size pistons whizzing about, so the engine/tranny doesn't accelerate/decelerate quite as quickly as a Jap 4. So your shifting technique needs to be spot-on or you'll miss shifts (esp. 1st - 2nd change as you travel through Neutral) doing clutchless shifting.

Please note that I do not advocate wheelies as 'a good idea' and a Boxer twin really isn't the weapon of choice for such antics. The fact that I have done (do) such daft things occasionally certainly shouldn't be taken as me suggesting its a good practice - it isn't.

You don't really benefit from using clutchless upchanges for any other riding that one of these bikes are typically going to be used for (the only other use I can think of is after I've done thousands of gearchanges on a long fast-ish ride in twisty roads and my L hand gets a bit tired - clutchless shifts means my clutch hand gets a bit of a break).

My '04 Rockster has 33k miles on it, 31k of which were by me. So far (fingers crossed) no transmission or clutch issues. But IF I do have something go wrong prematurely , I'll have to accept that the way I've ridden the bike may have contributed to it.

FWIW - I don't personally think that well-executed, 'normal' riding clutchless changes should make much difference to the transmission (others will not agree). I tend to think a rider does more damage by changing gear too slowly (sequential gearboxes on bikes tend to clunk and lash horribly with a slow change, and are silent and smooth done quickly - also blipping the throttle on downshifts gives everything an easier time too).

On your own head be it - f you decide to clutchless upshift sometimes, then you have to accept that it might not be the best practice. "It's best if you didn't" would probably be the majority opinion.

[Nebraskabeemer]

Interesting thread. I've owned several air-heads, and a Guzzi Lemans, that all needed a bit of technique to shift smoothly. My R1150R benefits from a good technique from first to second, and a little bit less of the same thing from second to third. Once I'm in third, I don't seem to notice anything much different needed. On first to second, I have my foot under the shifter ready to go, a light fan of the clutch, and I don't shut the throttle completely off. If you concentrate when you do this, it's as smooth as an automatic, and shifts better than my wife's automatic Toyota. Not following this gives you what I would describe as a feeling of want to fall forward, I imagine it's just the fork compressing a bit when the power is shut off. A friend with an R1150 GS says the same thing applies to his. The closest comparison I can make to my current bike is a 92 R100R I owned. It had the last version of the air-head drive train (paralever), and shifted very nicely. You still needed to get used to it, but I would say not as much as the R1150. The current bike really likes to rev, and I find myself really riding it much harder than an air head. The air heads seemed to tolerate that, but the oil-heads I've ridden seem to encourage it.

[echo42kp]

Thanks to all, this was an awesome response. There is a wealth of info here. I think i am going to go back to the basics and develop my regular clutch shifting before I do anything else. I just found the speed shifting easier in certain circumstances. I bought this bike to ride for many years so I want to take care of her. I welcome any further comments or advice as well.

[riceburner]

speed shifting is shifting up without engaging the clutch. It involves putting pressure on the shifter from underneath (going up) and rolling off the throttle slightly. This will shift into the next gear without engaging the clutch

Ah - ok, yes it's possible (I once had a clutch failure that meant to get home I had no choice...) but it's awkward and can be clunky at first. You can develop the skills to do it smoothly (I have), but in general it's better to use a little bit of clutch.

[gregor]

I've discussed the shifting technique on my other thread about synthetic gear oil. The distilled conclusion was always to use some clutch and pre-load the gear shift pedal.

A few times, due to severe left hand wrist pain, I had to up shift without pulling in the clutch. Worked surprisingly well but was definitely a temporary thing.
I now avoid wearing a wrist watch and do not tighten the glove straps hard either to maximize wrist movement. That in conjunction with various medications has eased things.

[Soliton]

I have done speed shifting up and down on my bike (R1150r) and it can be done but as others have said....To what benefit?

The best tips I was given about shifting on our bikes:
- Take in the slack on the clutch, (That tiny bit before you feel it starting to take up)
- Light toe pressure to the shifter (again that taking up slack thing)
- Back off the throttle a smidge, and in and out with the clutch in a firm but "quick and lively" fashion, whilst simultaneously giving the shifter a good solid nudge.

In the early days of this bike I was babying the clutch a bit and she really didn't like one bit.

If anyone knows of a magical way to get rid of the downshift clunk I would be interested to know. Up shifts are as slick as greased weasel poop but the downwards has gone "clunk" of every wobbly I have owned since I left school. (The R90s was the worst but it was also the oldest, a truly beautiful machine to behold but sometimes it was a cantankerous cow of a thing to ride.)

Regards,

Sol

[grwrockster]

If anyone knows of a magical way to get rid of the downshift clunk I would be interested to know. Up shifts are as slick as greased weasel poop but the downwards has gone "clunk" of every wobbly I have owned since I left school. (The R90s was the worst but it was also the oldest, a truly beautiful machine to behold but sometimes it was a cantankerous cow of a thing to ride.)

Sol - do you 'blip' the throttle on downshifts (esp. when changing down at higher engine speeds). This was discussed in a 'clunk v snick' topic on here some while ago.....

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