"$20 Stupid Tax for all tires showing cords"

[ColumbiaBMW]

On my way home last weekend, while stopped in St. Louis, I noticed my tire had a little bit of cords showing. It was weird though because half of the tire had quite a bit of tread left, and on the other side it was already down to the cords. Unfortunately it was Sunday though, no shops were open, and I had to be home, so I had to ride on the tire another 120 miles until I got home. I know...I know...it was really stupid, but short of stabbing my tire and calling AAA, I didn't have a lot of options. I went about 60 mph the entire time, accelerated as slowly as I possibly could, and breathed a huge sigh of relief once my driveway came into view. The next morning I took the wheel off, grabbed the new tire that has been sitting in my garage, and drove down to the local shop to have them swap the tires out.



The funny part about this story is when I got to the local shop that changes my tire, the owner just laughed and pointed to a sign on the wall.



And the scary part of the story is that when I went to remove the bolts from the brake caliper so I could take off the rear wheel, I noticed the bolts were loose enough to remove with my fingers!!! I definitely had someone looking out for me this weekend, and now I'm off to buy some Loctite (with a brand new tire, and freshly tightened bolts everywhere on the bike).

[sweatmark]

On my way home last weekend, while stopped in St. Louis, I noticed my tire had a little bit of cords showing. It was weird though because half of the tire had quite a bit of tread left, and on the other side it was already down to the cords...

That's a serious mistake, with potentially disastrous results.

You should always aim for uniform cord/belt exposure, in terms of width of that beautiful shiny steel, and amount showing around tire circumference.



Major points deduction for irregular tire wear, hurts your chances for Olympic medal.

[ColumbiaBMW]

You definitely win! Guess I had nothing to worry about, probably could have done another 500 miles!

[Ol' Jeffers]

Well, here in the UK its a black mark on your licence and a fine if you're caught with a tyre
with less than 1mm of tread depth over a third (I think) of the tyre's circumference. The discovery by a police officer also
prompts a thorough check of the rest of the bike and another two instances of dangerous parts/equipment means a possible driving ban.

It's an extraordinarily dangerous thing to ignore. A short rain shower and suddenly any grip the tyre may still have
will no longer exist. (A bit like hitting a patch of diesel.) On the rear the loss of grip may, just possibly, be manageable but on the front it's suicidal.
All tyres have wear bars to indicate the need to replace. If the tyre has deteriorated to that degree then you have also
lost the original profile due to 'squaring off' and that ain't so good either.

Just my opinion.

[ColumbiaBMW]

A short rain shower and suddenly any grip the tyre may still have
will no longer exist.

I was actually riding about 80 mph during a heavy downpour for about an hour before I pulled over and noticed the cords showing, I didn't seem to have any loss in traction. I understand it wasn't the greatest idea to ride it until it was that bare, but I just never noticed it was that low until a couple hundred miles into my trip.

[grwrockster]

AHA! So, this perhaps explains why our American cousins can get so much more mileage out of the rubber then !

There's got to be a couple of thousand extra miles between when our Police start writing tickets for illegal tread depth and the cords showing right?

Is there a minimum tread depth limit then in the states? At what point to the American LEO's decide that a tyre is illegal / dangerous then and start writing tickets?

As getting points on my licence seems really dumb for an illegal tyre (I can always find much more interesting ways to do that !) I tend to change them when they are at the limit (I also use a rear tyre without a centre tread groove to eke the max out of the tyre). I've never been able to better 5k ish miles before the rear tyre is at the 1mm limit.

[omg1010]

Thats why back here in Germany anything less than 2 mm thread is a no go and leads to punishment.

Luck you made it home without any problem. And the wheel screws do not require any loctite. They should be greased and be clean and dry. Lock them properly (with the recommended torque) and check again after maybe 100 kms (because they tend to "sit" and get slightly loose - although I have never ever experienced this).

Brgds
Oliver

[ColumbiaBMW]

And the wheel screws do not require any loctite. They should be greased and be clean and dry.

How can they be greased AND clean and dry?

I wasn't talking about the bolts that hold the wheel on though (I always make sure they're on tight to the right torque specs), I was just talking about the 2 little bolts that hold the brake caliper to the swingarm, they had become loose over time.

[omg1010]

Sorry, typo error. Stupid me ... These bolts should NOT be greased and clean/dry!

Brgds
Olier

[omg1010]

How can they be greased AND clean and dry?

I wasn't talking about the bolts that hold the wheel on though (I always make sure they're on tight to the right torque specs), I was just talking about the 2 little bolts that hold the brake caliper to the swingarm, they had become loose over time.

Hi,

even these do not require any loctite. On none of my bikes have I ever used loctite there. Just used the appropriate torque and never experienced any loose bolt on the brake caliper. But if you feel better use some of the blue loctite. Don't use that red sh*t which you need to heat upto 120°C in order to get it loose ...

Brgds
Oliver

[gregor]

I'd be grateful I'l got away with it. But I'd ask that the $20 be given to an appropriate charity.

We get MOT warnings when the tread approaches the wear markers.Not reached them on my rear yet and plenty of rubber left. New tyre in garage.....

[Boxer]

Sorry, I have to say this, but police monitoring motorcycle tire tread depth is just one more step toward the nanny state. Darwin takes care of most problems of this nature.

[Ol' Jeffers]

Sorry, I have to say this, but police monitoring motorcycle tire tread depth is just one more step toward the nanny state. Darwin takes care of most problems of this nature.

Problem is when one of the Darwinian candidates driving with bald tyres kills a member of your family (or any other innocent bystander).
There are plenty of people out there who would be perfectly happy to drive a vehicle with bad brakes, bald tyres and no lights irrespective of
the consequences and it's those people the law is designed for.

[Rog(UK) - Yorkshire Dales]

I'm going to play 'Devil's Advocate ' on this subject.

I think I am correct in saying that a bald tyre (which still has rubber in the central portion) has more grip in the dry that a tyre which has tread, but when the road is even slightly damp, very much the opposite is the case

The Metzler Z6 doesn't have a central tread. Why? Maybe because it has been tested in all conditions and has passed with flying colours. Has Metzler discovered that it is only necessary to have tread on the parts of the tyre which will contact the road when the bike is at an angle? Presumably so.

When the road is wet, is there significant coefficient of resistance difference between the central portion of a tyre which is plain rubber and one which is showing steel chord? I doubt it.

Does it actually matter if the central portion of our tyres is treaded, bald, or even showing the steel carcase? You would certainly get better fuel consumption if you were running a tyre on the steel carcase..........

Ride safely,

Rog

[Woland]

Sorry, I have to say this, but police monitoring motorcycle tire tread depth is just one more step toward the nanny state. Darwin takes care of most problems of this nature.

Problem is when one of the Darwinian candidates driving with bald tyres kills a member of your family (or any other innocent bystander).
There are plenty of people out there who would be perfectly happy to drive a vehicle with bad brakes, bald tyres and no lights irrespective of
the consequences and it's those people the law is designed for.

Indeed, the Americans fear of the so called "nanny state" is one of the things that baffles me about the US. But then again, I'm Swedish and we're all communists anyway I get that someone might be caught in a bad situation and be more or less forced to ride with cord showing until they can get a new tire, but anyone who purposefully rides around like that any longer than necessary needs to be fined. Not only because he places himself at risk but mostly because he places everyone else at risk, and that's got nothing to do with any "nanny state", but rather with holding people accountable.

Call me socialist all you want

[def]

Sorry, I have to say this, but police monitoring motorcycle tire tread depth is just one more step toward the nanny state. Darwin takes care of most problems of this nature.

Problem is when one of the Darwinian candidates driving with bald tyres kills a member of your family (or any other innocent bystander).
There are plenty of people out there who would be perfectly happy to drive a vehicle with bad brakes, bald tyres and no lights irrespective of
the consequences and it's those people the law is designed for.

"Gooooolly Andy, looks like I can see the cords in those tars. Should I tell Wally about it"?

"Naw Gube, those tars are good for another thousand miles I would recon. And, Wally's got lots of other things to worry about like his daughter being in a family way and not having a husbind. So, I wouldn't give them tars another thought".

Here in Alabama, we sell old tars with cords showin'. New tars are just too much trouble to put on them wheels. Oh, and those loose brake screws, just tighten 'em up with a vicegrip...they'll be fine.

[grwrockster]

Rog,

The reason the Z6 rear tyre (and other mfrs rear tyres) don't have (or require) a centre tread groove is because in wet weather conditions the front tyre clears the water away before the rear to run through the same track.

when the wheels are on different tracks is when arcing through a corner - so both tyre have a significant tread pattern on the outer sides & shoulders.

As someone else said - a bald tyre will grip in the dry perfectly well. However, being very thin it'll run hotter and also puncture far more easily.

[Rog(UK) - Yorkshire Dales]

I'm still in 'Devil's Advocate' mode (purely for discussion's sake!)

in wet weather conditions the front tyre clears the water away before the rear to run through the same track.

Good point. Front tyres need significant tread.

If the front tyre clears the water, why can't we run a bald tyre on the rear? (by bald, I am referring to the central section only)

a bald tyre will grip in the dry perfectly well. However, being very thin it'll run hotter and also puncture far more easily.

. Why will it run hotter? Surely, the hysteresis losses will be lower with a bald tyre simply because of the thinner section of rubber resulting in a lower rise in temperature.

I'm not sure that a bald tyre actually will puncture significantly more easily than one which has only 2mm of tread.

Rog

PS and the earth bl**dy well IS flat!

[grwrockster]

Rog,

If the front tyre clears the water, why can't we run a bald tyre on the rear? (by bald, I am referring to the central section only)

You could and you could argue do if you run a Z6 or other tyre without a centre groove.

a bald tyre will grip in the dry perfectly well. However, being very thin it'll run hotter and also puncture far more easily.
. Why will it run hotter? Surely, the hysteresis losses will be lower with a bald tyre simply because of the thinner section of rubber resulting in a lower rise in temperature.

I'm no boffin, but I believe its simply a case of there being less material to absorb and dissipate the heat generated e.g. why heat sinks are big lumps of material, and bulb filaments are thin - you can heat up the lesser quanity of material with a lot less energy - ergo same amount of energy, less material = more heat. For the same reasons brakes will overheat more quickly if the pads and/or discs are badly worn by transferring more energy as heat into the brake fluid. There's also the general rule that insulation is more effective if it is thicker/more of it - heat retention or exclusion again as a result of greater mass.

I'm not sure that a bald tyre actually will puncture significantly more easily than one which has only 2mm of tread.

The extra 'meat' even with 2mm tread left makes quite a difference. have you ever examined a worn rear tyre and felt just how little there is between the air pressure and the road surface when it's bald? It's not much at all. I can tell you from practical experience that a bald tyre is more puncture-prone.

Finally... yes, the world IS flat. You forgot to include that it is also carried through space on the shoulders of 4 Elephants, who in turn are standing on the shell of a Giant Turtle

[riceburner]

When the road is wet, is there significant coefficient of resistance difference between the central portion of a tyre which is plain rubber and one which is showing steel chord? I doubt it.

Probably more than you'd think.

Steel on tarmac & chips is not a good recipe for friction even when dry, when wet it'd be virtually zero - hence the generally good advice not to ride with tyres showing steel.