'04 R1150R Open space - what is this for?

[ekyang]

Can anyone help me understand why under the gas tank of my R1150R is there this big open space? Am I supposed to somehow use this space for something?

[maccraith]

ABS unit for bikes that have ABS brakes

[riceburner]

As said - it's where the ABS control unit lives on bike equipped with it.

Useful, isn't it! I tend to use to host various aftermarket relays and wiring. I think one or two people have fitted small tyre pumps. I always wanted to see if it was possible to move the battery into that space - would give a lot more 'under tank' stash volume for temporary items.

[CycleRob]

Knowing the gasoline fumes retention and re-burn as well as moisture exclusion functional values of the charcoal canister and not liking it visible when the system city cases were not attached, I moved the canister to that non-ABS pocket. These are very old pics, taken when my (now long gone) 2002 R1150R was not yet 6 months old and just before I rode 100+ miles to a BMW dealer for my new BMW City System Cases.


You too can create your own canister support system from strong metal scraps like I did. Just be sure it is physically oriented and hose connected the same way it was when it hung from the rear subframe.

If there is some question about the correct hook-up of the 3 hoses to the canister, go here for the spoon feeding instructional:
https://r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.php? ... 68#p235268

EDIT: To update to a better, faster photo host.

[towerworker]

On a select few R bikes that's where they mounted the water pump.

[hesallwet]

It's where you keep your stash :-)

[Boxer]

Like Cyclerob, I installed my charcoal canister there as well. I would like to have seen the new owner's face when he found it under there.

[bransan]

I installed an on-board battery charger there.

[Sunbeemer]

I installed a small tire pump and a Stebel Nautilus mini air horn...I guess you could say I installed two compressors in there

The horn is still really loud even under the tank

[ekyang]

Wow Rich - I can't believe you stuffed an air compressor and air horn in there. Very impressive! So does the air horn run in conjunction with your stock horn or did you replace the stock horn?

[ekyang]

Knowing the gasoline fumes retention and re-burn as well as moisture exclusion functional values of the charcoal canister and not liking it visible when the system city cases were not attached, I moved the canister to that non-ABS pocket. These are very old pics, taken when my (now long gone) 2002 R1150R was not yet 6 months old:



You too can create your own canister support system from strong metal scraps like I did. Just be sure it is physically oriented and hose connected the same way it was when it hung from the rear subframe.

I'm in the midst of my charcoal canister labotomy based upon this guy's Youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H907BjGC ... tUyCQEAlig He recommends cutting it because it introduces charcoal into your fuel mixture and if it causes your fuel filter to fail due to particulate obstructions it causes damage to your fuel float tube (jump to the 10:00 mark in the video to see (~$300+ part to replace).

[CycleRob]

About that YouTube video guy, when he said the canister serves no useful purpose and it's not needed, he showed me he doesn't know the system or the value of the canister. Besides eliminating gasoline's Hydrocarbon emissions . . . which are trivial, it was designed to trap fuel vapors normally expelled from the fuel tank, retain them all, then vacuum purge and burn them equally into both TBs when the engine runs. That means you can store your hot engined bike in your basement garage with full confidence it will not emit any gasoline odors at all. It also prevents water from being sucked into the fuel tank, as would happen with the "new" removed fuel tank vent meant for the canister either hanging loose or going to the street drain hose hanging down in the open, ready to inhale rainwater when the sun heated fuel tank is quickly cooled down by the powerful rain storm you just rode into.

The removed canisters he shook by hand, one had loose granules inside (that's normal!!) and the other had "liquid in it", holding the crystals together. Most often that liquid is water, deposited there by way of misconnected vent lines when the fuel tank was removed and replaced. Here's a permanent way to avoid that happening, when you Zip-Tie the 2 hose/fitting ends to lock in the gender:


Misconnected fuel vent lines can also apply high vaccuum negative pressure to the fuel tank and internal parts. Fuel cap area rain water (deposited by misconnected fuel vent lines) stays in the canister because it takes a long time (days) to evaporate water thru the vacuum purge line when the engine runs. Fuel from an intentional excessive gasoline overfill evaporates in under 20 minutes road riding time (as the bike sometimes runs roughly). Sometimes fuel will get into the charcoal media, but the charcoal cannot and will not go uphill to the tank and against the continuous vacuum purge air flow. Deposits? That black fine granular crap is in some of today's gasolines, as found some time ago in the bottom of my 6 gallon red plastic fuel container. The collapsed/dented fuel gauge tube was not damaged by the canister.
For a spoon feeding instructional on a way to easily diagnose a questionable hose hook-up or just to confirm that yours is correct, go here:
https://r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.php? ... 68#p235268

EDIT: To update to a better, faster photo host and add text enhancements.

[ekyang]

My guess is that YouTube video guy is a discharged Harley mechanic that had 2 beers for breakfast and he'll have 3 for lunch. Why/How is a plodding Neanderthal like that working in a BMW shop? When he said the canister serves no useful purpose and it's not needed, he showed me he doesn't know the system or the value of the canister. It was designed to trap fuel vapors normally expelled from the fuel tank, retain them all, then vacuum purge and burn them equally into both TBs when the engine runs. That means you can store your hot engined bike in your basement garage with full confidence it will not emit any gasoline odors at all. It also prevents water from being sucked into the fuel tank, as would happen with the "new" removed canister street drain hose hanging down in the open, ready to inhale rainwater when the sun heated fuel tank is quickly cooled down by the powerful rain storm you rode into.

The removed canisters he shook by hand, one had loose granules inside (that's normal!!) and the other had "liquid in it". Most often that liquid is water, deposited there by way of misconnected vent lines when the fuel tank was removed and replaced.

Misconnected fuel vent lines can also apply high vaccuum negative pressure to the fuel tank and internal parts. Fuel cap area rain water (deposited by misconnected fuel vent lines) stays in the canister because it takes a long time (days) to evaporate thru the vacuum purge line when the engine runs. Fuel from an intentional excessive gasoline overfill evaporates in under 10 minutes engine run time (as the bike runs very roughly). Sometimes fuel will get into the charcoal media, but the charcoal will not go uphill to the tank and against the continuous vacuum purge air flow. Deposits? That black fine granular crap is in some of today's gasolines, as found some time ago in the bottom of my 6 gallon red plastic fuel container. The collapsed/dented fuel gauge tube was not damaged by the canister.

Your logic appears sound - good thing I didn't throw away my charcoal canister. I may just go ahead and relocate it to my open space area now that I better understand its purpose. I didn't realize that the fuel vapors get reintroduced to the throttle bodies to assist with the burn mixture and to prevent gas fumes from being introduced to the open air. One clarification - you mentioned that the collapsed/dented fuel gauge tube was not damaged by the charcoal canister - so the collapsed/dented fuel gauge tub e may have been caused by black deposits but the black deposits themselves are not necessarily from the charcoal filter correct? Or are you saying there's no way that the fuel gauge tube could have experienced that kind of damage due to particulates in the fuel?

[CycleRob]

ekyang, The R1150R does not have that long fuel level sensor tube, the RT does, so I would keep the canister as long as you do NOT overfill the fuel tank -and- you always re-connect the tank vent and cap area drain lines correctly.

I just spoke on the phone about 4 minutes to a BMW Marietta service dept tech about this RT fuel tube issue. I was wrong. He said a plugged up canister could cause that (expensive) R1150RT fuel gauge tube to collapse and has seen it happen. To me that means the charcoal canister is an important component and that it MUST be re-connected properly during maintenance operations and the fuel tank must not be over-filled. He also said he legally cannot remove it in the BMW shop, but recommends removing them since only the USA model has them because of California EPA regulations. I disagree with people saying that the canister should be removed (which is illegal) because EVERY gasoline powered car/truck since 1974 has had the very same type system, working maintenance free for decades without any problems - - - even when we over-fill the tank! PLUS, I value the canister's ability to trap/store/re-burn those fumes that would surely have stunk up my garage if it was put away with a hot engine and doors closed. In the almost 8 years and 64,000 miles on my 02 R1150R the canister never caused a running or starting problem -except for- the time I excessively overfilled the fuel tank to avoid refueling in New York State on our day group ride. Only a small quantity of fuel was involved and after disconnecting the soloenoid-2-canister vent line, blowing thru it to clear fuel out the drain hose and 10 minutes or so of rough high RPM part throttle running slowly cleared it out. The next rest stop the vent line was reconnected. Obviously, a better functioning in the R1150R fuel cap assembly would have prevented that fiasco:


So there you have it. If your bike is stored in an adjacent garage, temp controlled living space and you don't mind the canister being seen there or you're just a fearful Green Earth weenie, you'll want to keep your canister working like it was designed to do.
Then there's the other group that hates the sight of it hanging there out back and thinks it's a bad thing. They WILL remove it and feel good about it. All too often they'll attach the lines the WRONG way, sometimes both plugging the tank cap area water (or over fuel splash) drain line -and- connecting the TB vacuum purge line to the street drain.

As you may have read, my F800ST also had 2 fuel overfilling episodes on our 2 rider group ride. It was August 2009 and I remember it well! Read it to the end for the full context.

EDIT: To update to a better, faster photo host and add text enhancements.

[Biff's R]

Mine has been removed for a couple of years. The bike has not blown up yet, but the EPA will probably be here tomorrow. My bike was running poorly, so I removed the cannister and everything ran better. That was 15k miles ago.

[jrsndman]

My guess is that YouTube video guy is a discharged Harley mechanic that had 2 beers for breakfast and he'll have 3 for lunch. Why/How is a plodding Neanderthal like that working in a BMW shop?

Thats a pretty harsh assessment of a guy whom you know nothing about. I don't know Chris personally, but find his YouTube channel quite helpful.


Affordable Beemer Services

[CycleRob]

jrsndman, After reading your reply, yes, that was a pretty harsh assessment of Chris. He is so very much like a Harley Wrench I knew that I transferred much of that to him. So . . . I decided to learn more about him by viewing the pics and watching the vids on his website. They were brief and helpful. Very different from the links I followed yesterday from the charcoal canister labotomy to more of those helpful, laced with the F word, YouTube Vids. The 28+ minute YouTube vid about a 2004 R1150R No Start was quite entertaining and not very flattering to his expertise. Then I realized it was not an actual BMW dealer service dept (that wrong assumption is what initially fueled my harsh assessment) -and- he has some very good Snap-On compression and leakdown test equipment, but . . . shows and documents how he fails to use them properly. The video about removing/installing the FD recommended heating the FD pivot pin bolt with a MAPP gas (hotter than Propane) torch. He heated it for a time, without IR thermometer reading the temp it attained, and put a breaker bar on the Allen hexhead. Two things, if it's not hot enough (under 180 degF) the still hard red Loctite could rip out the very fine Aluminum threads. If it's locally too hot (over 400 degF) the Allenhead hex could crack-n-crumble and be gouged out. He was lucky and they both came out. He mentioned phasing the U-Joints when taking them apart, but totally omitted mentioning anything about them on the re-assembly. All those events are where I got the "plodding" description. Removing/Replacing the FD is not a job for an experienced novice that was encouraged by a YouTube video, in that very expensive damage can occur if not done properly, also part of what fuels my (out-of-character?) negative responses.

Watching more of his YouTube videos, I can say that he can be helpful if you have nothing, but I would not let him work on my bike. If it were possible, I would eliminate the entire sentence: "Why/How is a plodding Neanderthal like that working in a BMW shop?" . . . so it would not be so "harsh", and let it go at that.