2015 R1200R Owners Thread

[Lost Rider]

In short, the loss of Telelever on the new bike is a non-issue as far as I am concerned. YRMV.

Not a good test in my opinion. You need to test where it really matters, when your braking distance gets worse because of the different concepts: on a bumpy and curvy road under hard braking.

Interesting comparison since you own both. I think there are two places where the Telelever stands out. The amount of travel available (real world, not theoretical which BMW likes to use, ignoring things like bumper compression) and the resistance to binding and dive (using up the travel in a non-productive way) in sub-optimal conditions - like having to brake on rough pavement on a curve.

I'm not a good enough rider to say with 100% certainty that I'd never have to do that.

Joe you're riding roads you're familiar with, and I'm sure you know the speed you can carry though the corners without braking. If I was riding the same roads - the situation wouldn't be the same. I think what you missed Joe - is CUG (name?) added braking in the corner (with rough pavement) into the equation.

In that sort of case - I'd want every little edge I could get, and in that case under those conditions, unless there is magic involved, telelever simply has the edge. That's due to the design. Trick electronics can't produce the same combination of anti-dive, no-stiction or binding and retaining full suspension travel under hard braking. Isn't happening. Can't actually without a whole bunch of impractical complexity.

And that's the biggie that's keeping me from trying a new R12R..

Actually, I'm pretty certain cug doesn't have his in his garage yet, so his opinion is coming from his test ride... certainly not from taking out the two bikes on the same road with a measuring tape, some marking chalk, and a camera for a real comparison. I have however taken all three generations of boxers in the garage back to back on the same roads in my hood' and pushed them hard, more than once. Not scientific, but there's no doubt the 2015 handles aggressive riding better and "emergency" maneuvers just fine, IMHO.

While I do know the roads around, there's literally hundreds of miles of canyons in my backyard, I can't know every corner and many times I've been riding more aggressive than anyone (but me )should on the street and have done dozens if not hundreds of times exactly what you guys are all talking about - braking very hard on rough surface sometimes coming into a corner. There's also the sudden corners and landslides I've been on in 3 states that I wasn't able to anticipate by memory.
My new RR has a nice ding in the front wheel from coming around a corner moving at a good clip to find a recent landslide... heavy braking, then dodging the big ones, the one I aimed for was the size of an baseball, better than the many football sized rocks options. My reactions, with the bikes overall handling I didn't crash. There's more to how a bike will handle in an emergency than just tele lever vs. forks... it's a fun debate assuming everything else is equal - it's not so therefore the debate is pointless.

It's always better to be setup correctly and carry speed through a corner of course, with thousands of miles of seriously pushing things I have tested how this bike handles in real life emergency situations, with huge cliffs to go over.... just trying to say that I don't see any major issue with this bike being just as safe and it performs better than my 07' hands down.
I could NOT say the same thing about the NineT or the F800R when comparing them to the 07'.

SO even if "technically" the tele lever can provide better stability under heavy braking, the level of performance all of the R1200R have is plenty safe in an emergency situation. If there is an edge, it's so minuscule that if someone is depending on that for their own safety I don't know what to say to that.
That edge (which I haven't felt) from tele lever in very specific situations could be mitigated by more professional rider training for sure, even if it's just a placebo.

[cug]

For me it came down to a checklist between what I liked and disliked on the new vs. the old. The main areas where I have a clear favorite between the two are:

• Engine/exhaust sound
• Suspension comfort
• Luggage Quality
• Looks
• Gizmos
• Engine in general (smoothness, power, ...)

The old R1200R for me is ahead in the first four points, the new one is ahead on the fifth, and kind of ahead on the last. I chose to get a new R because we already have a camhead (mainly my wife's bike) and I wanted something slightly different, not just the same bike in a different color although it was HARD for me to decide. It was really a 49:51 (new:old) thing in terms of likes and dislikes, but the "something different in the garage" pushed it for the new.

Finally made the move last Saturday. So, not yet in the garage, I did compare them back to back on a three hour test ride where I went back and forth the same road a few times on each.

And as I said, on the R the telelever doesn't make that big a difference, it's fairly subtle. If you really want to feel the difference, you need to ride a 2015 GS vs. a 2015 Multistrada, BMW in "Road/Normal", Multi in "Touring" to make it comparable. Both have Sachs dynamic suspension. Again, my very personal opinion, but the GS is a better touring package by a HUGE margin if you can live with the size. I was surprised. I actually wanted a Ducati lately as my second bike. A test ride cured that completely. The only things I liked better on the Multi over my GS were the transmission and that it felt smaller. Everything else was extremely (and I mean that) in favor of the GS.

Some people like the brake dive as it makes the steering sharper under braking (shorter front suspension, steeper fork => sharper handling). I dislike it quite a lot.

And I don't think the Telelever makes it much safer - although I believe that if you were putting a measuring tape on the ground one vs. the other you'd get a shorter brake distance on the telelever bike on a bumpy road. But the differences are really small. If you want to feel how bad the D-ESA COULD be, just wait for the computer to crash on you and not soften up from "zero". Which means, it's as hard as it gets. Happened on my GS twice. BMW couldn't find anything so far. Seems to be a computer bug. Shutting down, waiting two minutes, starting again solves it. That was when I really wished for a simple, mechanical system. Less complex can be a whole lot better.

CUG (name?)

Guido

[Catchina]

Good discussion about the telelever, now that it is gone. There were a whole lot of talk about how GREAT telelever was in the past and it was a reason why many picked BMW over other bikes. So is it a significant advantage or a minuscule barely noticeable one? The telever hasn't changed so it it our perception that changed, have we changed the flavor of the kool-aid?

I was anticipating upgrading to the new r with the new engine for over a year, mostly because of the new engine. When I finally saw a 2015 in the showroom I was surprised by how low the position was compared to my 2011, that and to a lesser degree the telelever issue made me decide to hold onto my 2011 a while longer. Now I am waiting to see the R1200RS.

Honestly I don't understand why they couldn't have used a design similar to the GS to split the radiator into two parts, mount them on a slight diagonal and preserve the telever. The radiator on the new R looks like a giant bug and debris catcher.

[Lost Rider]

You're absolutely right.

The new coolaid is addicting and intoxicating!

I do remember praising how well my 07' with Ohlins handled, I'm still praising how well my 07' handles and am certainly praising how well this new RR handles. The NineT? Not so much, feeling what a bike should feel like instead of just being used to it I say it feels like crap nowadays, but it does have about enough miles on it for replacing the already bad OEM suspension.

That's my point, I don't see any reason for the tele lever to be a big enough enough issue for someone to not buy this bike.

Styling, cost, options, ergonomics - those are all personal preference and up to whomever is buying one. The safety and handling of this bike without tele lever should not have anything to do with making a decision to buy one or not.
It's just fine and comfortable on the highway without it and for those that like to ride more spirited, it's better. IMO of course.
Yes, my 07' has a slightly more "floating" or soft feeling on the highway, but it's not more comfy necessarily, just different. I've not once thought the new RR didn't do a good job soaking up the road bumps on long hauls.



As for waiting for the RS, a guy posted these on ADV, maybe it will help you. Looks to me like the ergos will be pretty similar, if anything worse for my size.
I'm completely content with my riding position, without changing anything except rotating the bars slightly back. For rides over 300 miles I put an Airhawk on and that's it.


http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthre ... 20&page=50

[peels]

OH, now thats cool.

Why do I Suddenly have the urge to burst through a wall and yell "ohhh yeah!" ?

kool aid sounds great. extra sugar please.

[cug]

Quick comment on this one:

This photo is not correct. The tanks should be the same height as they are the same. Therefore the handlebars are too high in comparison on the R model side. If you account for the fact that the tanks are the same height in reality the handlebars are roughly the same height as well. RS is more forward though.

[cug]

That's my point, I don't see any reason for the tele lever to be a big enough enough issue for someone to not buy this bike.

On the R I agree, the differences are small. I would not have bought the GS without Telelever. Especially not after testing the Multistrada and KTM 1190 Adventure.

[Lost Rider]

Something a little different.

[Bill Stevenson]

Interesting comments on Telelever. I will stand by mine. My "S" turn is in no way as good a test as the environment that Joe rides in out in California so his observations are much more significant than mine. My road was smooth in those turns although on the same ride I went over some very rough roads in other places. The new RR is a very easy bike to ride smoothly. Without doubt there are bikes that are more aggressive, and a GS has more suspension travel, but in my experience (i.e. ~ 400K Beemer miles and counting) the new RR is the easiest bike to ride in a relaxed manner compared to any other. As far as hard braking in a corner on a bumpy road, I would not do that. As an old MSF instructor, I was taught and practice a technique known as "stop turning and start stopping."

My next observation has to do with heat and engine cooling. Not everyone will need this information or care about it, but I live in South Florida where it gets a wee bit hot from time to time. The new RR handles fast rides on hot days better than my 2008 RR did, but at the expense of some heat coming off the radiator onto my legs. My hottest ride so far was on a day with ambient temps varying between 96 and 99 degrees F. At speeds up to about 85 mph, the engine temp never went above 190 degrees F, compared to 185 degrees F normal on cooler days. At stop lights the engine temp would creep up to about 212-215 degrees F, the fan clicked on and the temp dropped to 204-208 degrees F pretty quickly (i.e. before the light turned green). My old bike typically would go up one or two bars above the normal range and it would not come down easily or quickly under similar hot ambient conditions. This always made me worry. In short, the new bike has substantially better heat management for the engine, but does dump some heat on the rider's legs. Not nearly as much heat as I used to experience with my last K bike (a 1994 K1100RS) or with my Triumph Sprint ST. I will report further on this aspect of the new bike after the summer ends if there is interest. For now I will say that the Hexhead is more comfortable to ride for the rider in hot humid conditions, but the engine heat is better managed for the engine itself with the new wasserboxer.

Bill

[cug]

As an old MSF instructor, I was taught and practice a technique known as "stop turning and start stopping."

You mean "stop turning and get stopped by oncoming traffic"?

There is no single correct way of doing this, it depends on the situation. I also learned about "the bike up and stop", but that can sometimes create a much more dangerous situation. But we are producing bad situations that will happen with any bike and any technology on the bike.

Maybe the single correct way is to "not ride faster than visibility allows". That's what our instructors tried to beat into our heads. Takes a lot of "fun" out of canyon carving though.

[Bill Stevenson]

You mean "stop turning and get stopped by oncoming traffic"?

This happens in this country for riders entering a right hand turn going too fast.

"There is no single correct way of doing this, it depends on the situation. I also learned about "the bike up and stop", but that can sometimes create a much more dangerous situation. But we are producing bad situations that will happen with any bike and any technology on the bike."

Agreed, every situation is different. But no matter how we express it, when riding on public roads we have to share road space and find a way to deal with turns and stops within the confines of the space available to us. Not always easy.

"Maybe the single correct way is to "not ride faster than visibility allows". That's what our instructors tried to beat into our heads. Takes a lot of "fun" out of canyon carving though."

Another way to express the same concepts. LOL! If you want to take the fun out of canyon carving come down to Florida. There is not one canyon to carve in the entire state.

[cug]

That's another reason why Florida has no appeal to me ...

[peels]

Another way to express the same concepts. LOL! If you want to take the fun out of canyon carving come down to Florida. There is not one canyon to carve in the entire state.

but...

you can be out NOT carving canyons 12 months out of a year!

fair trade.

[Bill Stevenson]

"but...

you can be out NOT carving canyons 12 months out of a year!"

Exactly.