BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

There is a lot of information here and I would like to add to it. If these points have already been made I missed them and apologize for being redundant:
1. There is not any credible statistical evidence that I am aware of that one helmet style is more effective or safer than another as long as it is DOT rated. Even Snell vs. DOT is a debate, much less full vs. 3/4 style.
2. The flip up chin bar helmets are technically 3/4 helmets, and as such not considered any more effective than any other 3/4 helmet.
3. A study was conducted in Australia over a decade ago that reported evidence that a full coverage helmet might cause the rider's neck to break in some accidents and as such could be less safe than a 3/4 helmet in some types of accidents.
4. In weighing the merits of any piece of safety gear it is important to weigh ALL of the variables and recognize that every choice involves compromise. What is the probability that in hot weather the wearer could suffer heat exhaustion with one type of helmet compared with another? Is heat exhaustion more or less probable than a crash? Should one take priority over the other?

Personal preference, comfort and the choice of a DOT approved helmet are the most important issues. Everything else is up for grabs. Wear what you like and keep the rubber side down.

Regards,

Bill

A German study in the 1990s concluded that a large number of injuries (fatal ones) were to the jaw. My friends who work in the ER and who ride motorcycles also agree that a full face helmet is better.

In terms of heat exhaustion, drink water, wear ventilated clothing, and rest often. I really doubt that the type of helmet will make the difference between heat exhaustion and a pleasant ride so long as the helmet fits properly.

In the long run, with the number of distracted and multitasking drivers out there, the difference between a full face and 3/4 helmet is probably very little in most collisions. I just prefer any extra margin of safety on the bike.

I'll agree that full-face helmets are no more effective than 3/4 helmets if you define effectiveness as prevention of death due to brain injury. But that's not the whole issue here. Consider facial skin grafts, nerve damage, broken jaws, and extensive dental work--if 40% of the impacts to a helmet occur in the chinbar area, it is undeniable that full face helmets are more effective in reducing those kinds of injuries.

Regarding Snell vs. DOT, it can be argued that there are some incidents where one is better protected by a helmet meeting the DOT standard, and there are some incidents where one is better protected by a hemet meeting the Snell standard. The big difference, though, is one of integrity: The DOT rating is based on the honor system. A manufacturer claims that its helmet has passed the test and it can apply a sticker to its products. A Snell rating REQUIRES that the helmet be submitted to Snell's lab for testing. It's also worth noting that, over the past five years, the US Department of Transportation has tested an average of 30 allegedly-DOT-approved helmets per year, and roughly half of them did not pass.

I think the main thing is to minimize risk. Wearing a full face or 3/4, I am less likely to get in an accident if I keep my speed to a reasonable level. If I crash fast or slow I will get hurt, probably more hurt if only wearing a 3/4. But I still like riding with a 3/4 for some rides. I mention risk because I think some riders put on the full gear, full face helmet and then treat the road as if it were a track complete with runoffs, airfences, etc. Now that I ride much slower, dont try to prove anything by speed or how far leaned over or whether I've got chicken strips or not (+ having a bike with great safety features such as ABS) I am comfortable wearing a 3/4 on some of my rides.

One more perpective in favour of full helmets (I wear a flip-up BMW systems 5) is that of the poor bugger who has to pick you up off the road.

In a health authority I used to work for, we started a de-briefing progam for emergenecy workers. Dealing with a major bike crashes with severe facial injuries turned out to be one of the things these guys had most difficulty with. Anecdotal evidence, to be sure, but enough to convince a few of us not to use the 3/4 conversions on our BMW systems helmets (I've had 1,2,3,4, 4Mk2 and 5).

My best riding mate (an ex-cop) heard the tale and was very glad he stayed full-face when he crashed in hot weather in the desert. The damage to his chin guard (which retained integrity with the main helmet despite a 100+km/h crash) was more than enough to indicate what would've happen to his square germanic jaw.

When we told the ambulance guys who colected him the story, they were also thankful.

This is without doubt the most informed and level headed discussion on helmets that I have ever participated in. You folks are to be commended. One funny thing: Echo wrote: "I really doubt that the type of helmet will make the difference between heat exhaustion and a pleasant ride so long as the helmet fits properly." I notice that Echo lives in Maine. I am a displaced New Englander myself and would like to extend an invitation to Echo, or anyone else who doubts, to come down to South Florida for a ride. The best months for the purpose would be May-October. I believe any doubt about the potential for heat exhaustion would be mitigated by the experience and that a new appreciation for the benefits of a 3/4 would be developed. I use both styles myself based on temperature, but never even tried a 3/4 helmet before moving to Florida.

Bill

One funny thing: Echo wrote: "I really doubt that the type of helmet will make the difference between heat exhaustion and a pleasant ride so long as the helmet fits properly." I notice that Echo lives in Maine.

Bill, isn't heat exhaustion something that happens when the temperature gets above 58 degrees? I've been on the road in the nineties with 100% humidity in Maine (those two days a year) wearing a full face helmet, spinal cord protector, and full riding gear. My helmet never bothers me in the heat but man that spinal cord protector is a heat sink.

After that paint ball incident that I referred to earlier, I know the day I leave a piece of gear at home is the day something happens on the road.

(By the way, my R1200R is from BMW Daytona)

One funny thing: Echo wrote: "I really doubt that the type of helmet will make the difference between heat exhaustion and a pleasant ride so long as the helmet fits properly." I notice that Echo lives in Maine.

Bill, isn't heat exhaustion something that happens when the temperature gets above 58 degrees? I've been on the road in the nineties with 100% humidity in Maine (those two days a year) wearing a full face helmet, spinal cord protector, and full riding gear. My helmet never bothers me in the heat but man that spinal cord protector is a heat sink.

After that paint ball incident that I referred to earlier, I know the day I leave a piece of gear at home is the day something happens on the road.

(By the way, my R1200R is from BMW Daytona)

My next helmet will be flip-up. To many dirtbike crashed when younger to think otherwise. I like my face just the way it is, thanks. Not to ride with it up, but when stopped (gas stations, friends, etc.) it is MUCH easier to communicate without having to take the helmet completely off.

Shaman wrote:My next helmet will be flip-up. To many dirtbike crashed when younger to think otherwise. I like my face just the way it is, thanks. Not to ride with it up, but when stopped (gas stations, friends, etc.) it is MUCH easier to communicate without having to take the helmet completely off.

Both the S/O and i use Shoei Multitec flip-up helmets.
They are, in my opinion, the best flip-ups on the market.
The system 5 from BMW is nice, but feels bulky and less luxurious than the Shoei.

When stopped, flip goes the lid - and the girlfriend ALWAYS gets a kiss

eisen wrote: When stopped, flip goes the lid - and the girlfriend ALWAYS gets a kiss

Ah - youth!

My personal favorite (on my 4th one now) are Schuberth Concept helmets.... the anti-fog shield and the drop-down sun shield are worth the price of admission.

Helmets - like windscreens and seats tend to be a really personal thing. I have a block-head (AKA German shape) head - so the Concepts work well for me.. other shape heads may not be comfortable in them. I'm not comfortable in Shoei helmets.

I can't believe Don put in writing that he's a blockhead!

I too have used the Schuberth (two of them) and really liked it's features even though I'm somewhat of an ovalhead. (Semi-blockhead?).

There's been a problem lately with getting Schuberth small parts. When it came time to get a new helmet, SO and I got the Nolan flip-ups with their intercom added. (Note: the DRIVER controls the on-off switch for the intercom!)

The Nolan also has the flip sun screen, albeit in the outside. Disadvantage vs Schuberth: when cracking the visor for fresh air, it raises the sun screen on the Nolan.

I find the Nolan quite a bit quieter than the Schuberth, but others report the opposite.

The Nolan antifog insert works very well in my experience.

Another advantage of the flip-up design, along with awkward kissing, is that it makes snacking and drinking water easier. I use my bike all day long on my job and wear glasses and therefore find the flip-up design a huge advantage.

SO and I got the Nolan flip-ups with their intercom added. (Note: the DRIVER controls the on-off switch for the intercom!)

I put a bluetooth Scala-rider headset in the S/O's helmet. She can chat for hours, leaving me to deal with the cages without being distracted.
When we go on longer trips, i forward all my calls to her cell - so i always have a PA on the back of my bikes

http://www.sportouring.com/main.php?gro ... _equipment

The Scala rider is a good "budget" product, but does not come close to the excellent quality of the WCS-1 communication pack built-in to the system 5 helmet. Shame they no longer sell WCS-1 to the public.

Echo,

"isn't heat exhaustion something that happens when the temperature gets above 58 degrees?" I dunno the exact temperature, but as I recollect it occurs shortly after ice-out.

Where do you live in Maine? We have a home in Colebrook, NH, and used to have a summer home on an island on Umbagog Lake. My wife still goes there quite often (she is now a flatlander living and working in the Boston area), but it is a tough commute for me from S. Florida. I have several clients in Maine and get up there a few times a year.

Bill

With my first bike, I went back and forth between a Shoei 3/4 and RF700 full-face. The day I went DOWN, I had that full-face on. I lofted off of the bike, and I came down face first, biased toward the right side.

I'd be FAR uglier than I am today were it not for that chin-bar. Indeed, I've been weighing the idea of a flip-face for months now. I can't seem to get past the fact that the chin-bar is just NOT the same, and how it helped me that day.

I live in Cumberland, just north of Portland. Enjoying a very snowy winter.....

"Enjoying a very snowy winter....."

Ayugh!

Sort of late in this discussion, but what the heck, here's another .02.

I've been in one accident in 40+ years of riding, and was really, I mean REALLY, glad I had a full face Shoei at the time. It absorbed a lot of impact from a freeway speed crash. I've worn all sorts, and in my very early days riding the Nevada desert even went without a helmet somedays. Currently own an Arai Quantum, Arai Tour XD, Bell Magnum, and an HJC "shorty". Use the HJC just on those days when it's really hot and not riding very far into town on low traffic country roads. Tour XD is probably my fave, mostly cuz it flows air pretty well, has a roomier "jaw space", and love the visor that keeps the setting Western sun out of my old eyes. Actually the feature that attracted me the most was that visor, just like a motocross style helmet, but aerodynamically designed to not catch too much wind. And yes my R has seen speeds over 100mph, and that visor was just fine. Long periods of 70-75 mph cruising were likewise just fine.

As to heat stroke problems...ridden in a lot of Nevada desert heat with full face and 3/4 style helmets. IMHO the full face with the shield cracked open is WAY better than an open face rig. Jacket/pant types have a lot more to do with how hot you get, at least in my experience. I actually suffered a heat stroke once working for the SP railroad in Nevada. Not fun. Can't speak to high heat and high humidity (Nevada desert is a dry heat, you know, sorta like an oven!) but suspect a 3/4 helmet with a good windshield would be preferable in those circumstances.

I've worked in emergency services in Nevada, California, and Washington state. Saw more than my share of moto accidents, and though my experience is only anecdotal, I believe clearly that a full face helmet is better. Though I've tried on the flip front jobs I'm not particularly attracted to them because their ease of use does not overshadow the complexity/weight. Yeah, I wear glasses, but got used to full face helmets long before flip fronts came along. Like many thing I guess it's what ya get used to that makes you comfortable. And my eye doc always makes sure I get ear pieces that are simple to put on thru a full face helmet eyeport.

Probably the most critical element of selecting a new lid is trying it on to get the right fit. There's a lot of variations in the human noggin. Wore Shoei's in the early days, then Arai finally started making some helmets in my egghead shape. Best of all worlds is to find a shop that will let you take one out for a test spin, or at least will give you a full refund/exchange within a couple of days of purchase. Good friend bought an early model Nolan flip front because it fit so well in the shop. Went for his first ride with it on his RS the following weekend and could not stand the amount of noise it generated...and the seller would NOT take the helmet back or do any sort of exchange. Guess that's my only buyer beware strategy. Of course for me now that I've settled on a brand that fits properly and consistently it's pretty simple shopping to get a new helmet every 5 years or so.

Okay. Enough I suppose. That's probably more like .50 than .02!

Ciao! BJ

interesting looking helmet....in the link above.....i have not seen those in US.....but i'll stick with traditional full face.....seriously considering Shark

http://www.metricbikes-superstore.com/s ... 15482.html

[quote="Skippy"]You could also look into this helmet from Shubert the J1. Don't know if you can get them though in the USA.

http://www.schuberth.de/index.php?id=22[/quote]

I actually like that idea.. wonder why no one thought of it sooner. The open face comfort of a 3/4, with nearly the same protection as a full-face. Typical German "over the top" engineering.