BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

I've just completed a 3000+ mile trip to from Portland, OR to southern Utah and the Grand Canyon. The scenery and low-traffic roads made for thrilling motorcycling, despite the daily high temperatures of around 100. Riding with two Texas friends of 30+ years, added to the fun.

Everyone got home safe, except that my Boise-Portland leg was done via a Southwest 737. On Thursday morning about 35 miles west of Boise, my clutch gave out with a hellish grinding sound. I had to be towed in to Boise’s BMW dealer, Big Twin. They knew I needed a new clutch right off the bat, but also found that I needed a new driveshaft. The splines (sp?) are gone. The mechanics tell me that this never happens to bikes with just over 15,000 miles . Long story short, the bike won’t be repaired until midweek, hence my air travel home. I’ll fly back out to Boise next Saturday to pick up the bike.

I'm dismayed by this expensive repair on a bike with relatively low miles (15,200). I am not an agressive rider, don't downshift into second at 70 mph, nor do I do drag race starts.

Once the work is done, I'll confer with my local shop, which has done most of the previous work. Then I'll contact BMW of North America to see what if any recourse I have. I'm not optimistic.

Anyone out there had or heard of similar sitauations?

Thanks,
Carlos

Bugger!!!...I'd be pissed off.

DJ

I would raise hell before having it fixed. What year is your bike? There should not be spline problems with your milage.

Do you mean driveshaft or transmission input shaft ? My driveshaft was bad at 15K, but totally functional, just a little notchy as you wiggled the U joints. We found the problem while replacing the rear end pinion seal. An input shaft stripped could indicate a misalignment of engine/clutch and transmission which could repeat itself every 15K in your case.

Not to be a doomsday guy, but you have to find out why that shaft stripped if it is that shaft. This is not unheard of.

In my case, BMW replaced the driveshaft.

Good luck,


geo

I'm fairly sure it's the input shaft. A friend forwarded this discussion from the BMWOA forum: http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11047

BMW of North America will hear from me soon.

Thanks for your comments/questions.

15,000 miles? Wow, I've never seen that! Isn't this a warranty issue?

It's a 2001, no longer covered by the warranty. I've initiated communications with BMW Motorrad USA and will pursue a settlement.

If the bike has been maintained properly, I would be shocked if this weren't handled via their goodwill policies

From your mouth to BMW's ear. Their response will tip my decision as to whether or not to remain a serial BMW owner.

I picked the bike up yesterday from Big Twin in Boise. After a 500+ mile test ride, it seems to be fine. (I took the longer, more scenic ride, of course.)

Got a very civil thumbs down from BMW USA. Civil, but still "sorry, no."

They told me there was nothing they could do, given that it was two years out of warranty when I purchased it from a third party.

Sorry to hear this, what a crapper.

What year is your bike?

That SUX, but 2 years out of warranty and being the 2nd or 3rd owner stretches the goodwill program way too far.

There is no amount of abuse that would cause a failure like that. The rear mag wheel or lugs should break first. It has to be a faulty shaft heat treat or machined-in from the creator eng/trans mis-alignment problem.

The one thing in common with most spline failures is sustained high speed cruising with a heavy or high drag load - - - - and it's usually an RT model.

There's a reason why American cars, with the same type of shaft/clutch, NEVER have this problem no matter how they are ruthlessly abused.
Two words: Design & Materials.

iowabeakster wrote:Sorry to hear this, what a crapper.

What year is your bike?

I think he said it is a 2001. Stop, don't sell your bike so fast! Like CYCLEROB said, heat treating can be one factor. I worked at my friends shop, (induction heat treating) and it is a very special step in the manufacturing process, that if not done properly, can result in multiple failures.

Carlos,
Sorry about the failure you had with your bike. Unfortunately, you are not alone - this problem has been documented and discussed on this and other forums. It does not appear to be a widespread problem in terms of the numbers involved, but of course if you are one of the people it affects then it becomes a very big deal. There have been many theories as to why and how this happens - my favorite is that a worker on the line at the factory, who had the responsibility for lubing the input shaft splines, took a lot of breaks and a small number of bikes were built with dry splines. The best and most likely explanation I've read involves two factors:
1) The design of the clutch hub and input shaft is marginal, and depends on perfect alignment of the transmission and clutch housings.
2) A small misalignment will cause premature failure, usually between 20k and 40k miles.

Replacing the clutch and input shaft may not be a long-term solution. If there is a misalignment, the same problem will reoccur.

My own bike is a 2004 R1150RA, purchased in December 2003. I have 49k miles with no problems, so I'm probably OK. My recommendation is the following:
1) If you buy a new bike, ride lots of miles so that any problem will show up during the warranty period.
2) If you buy a new bike, get an extended warranty.
3) If you buy a low-mileage used bike you will probably be OK. I have a problem with "probably", but the guy who wrote up the misalignment explanation in the BMWRA club magazine, On The Level, said that he wouldn't hesitate to buy a used oilhead.

I had a 2 year/48k service done on my bike recently. BMWs official recommendation for clutch spline lube is that they don't need it - the factory lube should be good for the life of the clutch, usually 80-120k miles. I did not insist that the shop lube the clutch splines for the following reasons:
1) It is very labor intensive - about $400.
2) I have an extended warranty good until December 2010.

I recently returned from a trip to Alaska in the company of two other BMW owners - a 2005 R1200GS and a 2007 R1200RT. With 25k miles on it the GS began leaking a small amount of fluid from the final drive. This is yet another rare but persistent problem with late model BMWs. At the time we were over 1000 miles from the closest BMW dealer. Sometimes the seal leaks because it has been chewed up by pieces from a broken bearing, sometimes it is just a leaky seal. My friend called the BMW shop in Anchorage, AK and the service manager said they would look at it. There was no side to side play in the bikes rear wheel, and it made it to Anchorage. The shop replaced the entire final drive. The bike's owner said that the bike used to fall into left hand turns, but that now it feels the same on right and left turns. He suspects that the original final drive had bearings that were not completely square in the wheel and thereby caused a misalignment of the rear wheel, and that this also caused the seal to leak. This is about his fifth BMW. As far as I know he always sells or trades in his bikes before the warranty is up. He also owns a new BMW car, which he loves, but he said that he'll get rid of it when the warranty is up.

It used to be that you could count on a BMW to provide many years and many thousands of miles of faithful and trouble-free service. For most owners that is still true, but whether or not you get a good one seems to be more of a crap shoot than it used to be.
Peter '73 R75/5, '04 R1150RA

The bike is actually a 2002 model. The manufacture date is June or July 2001, but it’s a 2002 model.

Thanks for these very thoughtful posts. After giving this some more consideration, I decided to stick with my original plan to go RT in 2008 or 2009. What I’m getting is that this sort of failure could happen again, due to faulty design. If that’s the case, it also raises the ethical question of selling the bike with the knowledge of a potential problem. I’m really not sure what to do about it at this time.

This has been complicated by the repairs not having been done completely or correctly. After riding back to Portland, the bike sat for a week in my garage. While preparing for a ride the following weekend, I noticed a small oily spot beneath the bike, below the center stand feet in its up position, on the drive shaft side. I had previously scheduled service (fork seals replacement) at the dealership for the next week. I told them about the “new” problem, which they are addressing.

Apparently, I won’t have to pay for the labor and parts to correct the improperly done repairs, but will have to do so for those left undone during the original repair. I suspect the final outlay will be close to $2000. The other confounding factor is that because of a very busy service department and parts that had to be ordered, I’ve been without the bike since July 31. It’s unlikely that I’ll get it back before next week.

The bad news is that we have short summers in the Pacific Northwest. The good news is that I have my Triumph to ride in the meantime.

Thanks again, everyone.