BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

I'm going to try to tighten my inner swing-arm pivot this weekend, and have read the manual saying to adjust the pivot pin (inner race) to 7N-m torque (thanks CycleRob) after removing the locknut and softening the Loctite at 240 deg, then removing the pivot pin and cleaning it thoroughly with an acetone-based solvent, and finally reapplying Locktite 2701 to it (which is no longer available, so I'd use Locktite 262, a.k.a. "Super Stud-locker") and torque it into the swing-arm and wait 3-hours for the Loctite to cure before retorquing the locknut on it, checking to be sure the pin did not rotate while doing that. Whew!

BUT, what would be the harm in removing the locknut, softening the original Loctite at 240deg, quickly retorquing the pin to the 7N-m spec, letting it cool, and then retorquing the locknut? This seems easier and has less chance of messing up the pivot bearing.

I talked to Loctite's technical department who recommend using (in order of strongest to weakest) Loctite 2760, 271, or 262 as a replacement for Loctite 2701 if I remove the pin. However they weren't sure what would happen to the softened Loctite 2701 after cooling if I decided to use the shortcut method, but thought it might actually lock the pin harder (i.e. more difficult to remove) after baking it.

Appreciate your thoughts.

I've read that the high-strength LocTite(s), after they are heated, crystallize, and then will provide no thread locking at all...possibly gunking up the fine threads in the process when you re-install...

If I were doing this, I would heat things up real good, & back out the adjuster as far as possible....even better if you could remove it w/ the bearing still in place. Not sure this can be done at the back end of the swingarm.....
Then clean the threads on the pin and housing real well, and re-install...with NO LocTite on any of the threads.
Then, dab just a drop of whatever Loctite you use ( I used #271) between the locknut & swingarm housing just before you torque down...essentially 'gluing' the locknut to the housing....

I've done my FD like this twice, once when I installed the bronze bushings to replace the bearings, and again ~ 10k mi later when I had the big FD bearing replaced. Makes dis-assembly a snap, and my index marks on the FD, locknut and pin have never moved on either side.
IMHO, the combo of fine threads, the huge torque on the locknut & right side pin, and some LocTite between the mating surfaces make glueing the threads overkill.
Works great for me, and I don't think the swingarm pivots see as much stress as the FD pivots do......

Thanks jm1515. I've heard from others who have foregone the Loctite on the pivot pins as well, and agree it shouldn't be a problem. Crystallization of rehardened Loctite could be a problem for future bearing removal (which will probably be necessary according to what I've learned about these parts), possibly damaging the housing's threads...

BTW, I am doing the FD end of the swing-arm pivots, didn't mean to mislead.

How do you like those RCG bushings?

The problem with the factory applied red Loctite is that on mine there was a surplus of it. It bonded the bearing inner race to the pivot bolt shank which complicated the removal. The adjustable side inner race OD is too large to pass thru the threaded hole. When you loosen it, it has to still be hot enough to keep the Loctite mushy, crumbling and weak so the pivot bolt can quickly be fully withdrawn. I later came to realize that bonding the inner race to the pivot bolt shank keeps it from turning and wearing away the Aluminum bolt's shank. That's what happened to Beemeridian's R1150R. His were so worn out he replaced them. The inner race turns on the Aluminum pivot bolt rather than turn inside the roller bearing, which typically is "notchy" and doesn't like to turn smoothly. That notchiness happens because the bearing doesn't rotate much at all and the radial loads can be very high with big/sharp road bumps. That means the needle bearing roller almost always is in the same place, creating a wear pattern and the notchiness.

I would not and did not use (permanent) red Loctite because it was overkill and a real hassle for future service adjustments. The 118 ft-lbs (160 Nm) torque on very fine threads is enormously tight and (Semi-Permanent) Blue is plenty to prevent loosening. IMEO it was lawyers and not engineers behind the choice. Besides, even if it scores that one-in-a-thousand chance and actually DID loosen up 2 turns, it would literally take weeks to occur. There's also plenty of feedback warning provided during and after that initial loosening in the form of wobbly handling, while still being safely rideable.

On the reassembly I recommend Blue Loctite on the threads, inner race ID and the area of the Aluminum pivot bolt's shank it rides on. Work quickly before the thread locker sets up as it will interfere with the installation torquing.

Fortunately for me my F800ST needs no such complex proprietary pivoting design. It's much simpler with just one long pivot shaft and 2 needle bearings.

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Two comments:

(1) This type of quality long-term bike maintenance information is why the R1150R board remains my favorite daily internet visit. Thanks to all for your ongoing contributions.

(2) Rob's gloating about F800 superiority is causing me some problems in the garage: loyalty to my utilitarian R1150R Rockster is being threatened by envy of my wife's shiny red & sexy F800S!

And a question: how many here have installed bronze Paralever pivot bushings, and what's been the performance experience?

A great point and a good question Sweatmark, which has been considered occasionally on the BMWMOA oilhead forum http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/. It seems most people who have them are happy with them, but there are some installation tricks to keep them working snugly.

Thanks again CycleRob for sharing your extensive experience. I didn't realize the inner race was lock-tited to the pin, and that would have been an unpleasant surprise to not be able to extract the pin because of it... Should I be concerned about applying enough heat to soften that Loctite to a greased bearing without intending to repack it? Will the grease ooze out of it when it gets that hot?

Armed with this new knowledge and that question in mind, I still wonder if it isn't better to just heat up the pin's shank enough to retorque it without removing it.

Sunbeemer,

When you heat the red Loctite it softens and changes composition. It crumbles as it's being sheared by the bolt turning in the tight clearance between the threads and does not behave the same way again after cooling. On assemblies where the fasteners and threads are very robust, I have forcefully removed bolts without any heat that were installed with red Loctite. That is definitely not the case with the 1150R's pivot bolt's very fine Aluminum threads!! They could be destroyed if enough heat is not used. An inexpensive handheld LCD Infrared thermometer will confirm the 100degC has been attained. Borrow or buy one if you'll be removing your FD or swingarm.

I would use Blue (semi permanent) Loctite so you'll never have to mess with a heat gun again. Be aware the 160 Nm (118 ft-lbs) torque spec was determined for threads coated with red Loctite. I say that for some mechanics that may decide to put it back together dry. That higher friction would produce a lower tensile retention load and could cause some very destructive thread galling. You need some similar liquid . . . like the clear nail polish I used as an interim thread locker for my swingarm that I knew would be taken apart again very soon.

You also do not need the special cut-away holding tool when you tighten the locknut. After the adjustable side's bearing freeplay was properly snugged up I used a prick punch mark at 12 O'Clock position on the bolt to confirm it had not moved after the locknut was tightened with a socket. Of the 6 times I did so in 3 removals, they never moved.

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Cyclerob said:

Fortunately for me my F800ST needs no such complex proprietary pivoting design. It's much simpler with just one long pivot shaft and 2 needle bearings.

I fear you have crossed over to the dark side! But am glad you come back to visit us who may still be in the dark.

I do want to again thank you for your help. I had much less trouble than anticipated removing the inside FD pivot pin from the swingarm using a heat gun for ~10 minutes, even though the hottest I could get it was 200 F. But after having experimented with some red Loctite 2047 beforehand on a 3/8" bolt & nut, I determined that was hot enough to loosen it. BTW, that Loctite turned into powder after heating it to 200F and had no siezing ability whatsoever afterward, which confirmed my plan to remove, clean and retorque the pivot pin with new Loctite, which I did using red Loctite 262 on the inside of the inner race and the pin's shank (to keep the race from spinning on the shank as you mentioned) and blue Loctite sparingly on the pin's threads. This was done after carefully cleaning all the old seizant from the threads with a dental pick and lacquer thinner, which I also used on a Q-tip to degrease the inside of the inner bearing's race.

Upon reassembly, the pivot pin screwed in smoothly right up until the last 1/8 turn before the torque wrench clicked at 62 in-lbs, where it "fell" into a notch. I backed it off and retorqued it 3 times hoping to find another spot on the race to get a smoother torquing, but each time it got notchy right before it clicked, so I left it there. I couldn't wiggle the FD by hand, so I hope that it's right, and will find out tomorrow when I put the tire back on and can give it a good shake. BTW, I did not detach the paralever arm, and I used a piece of rope to suspend the FD from the canister when I removed the pivot pin to lessen the overhung load on the outside pivot bearing. This worked well to keep the inner race centered in the swingarm's threaded hole so that the pin re-engaged it smoothly and allowed torquing without binding. I did peel the rubber boot back off the swingarm, stuffed a moist rag between it and the housing, and protected it with an aluminum-foil heat-shield. You can't even tell that I applied heat to that area; the paint was completely unscathed!

All in all ,it went better than I expected, in large part because of the help I received from you guys. My thanks to you all.
I also expect that I will be in the market for some new bushings before too long after feeling the notchiness in these .

Final edit: I got the locknut torqued down to 118 ft-lbs with blue Loctite and reinstalled the rear tire and there is zero play!
I declare it FIXED!