Timesert installation

[Dr. Strangelove]

Just when I feel the ability to offer advice about the Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance ( viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20183&start=0 ), the big jaws of Irony chomp down on my advice offering posterior and I close-enough completely strip one of the bolts of my left cylinder head cover.

A quick search of this forum turns up a product to address this situation: Timesert

The one needed is the M6 1.0. You can find them on Amazon for $58 + delivery.

Long story short, I stripped the bolt Sunday around 6pm and now Thursday at 630 I think I am repaired.

Package came this afternoon UPS

The contents of the Timesert Kit



The offending hole--you can see some loose thread material



The first step: drill out the threads from the hole--the tap wrench was not included and is necessary.




The drilled out hole



Now this tool is used to countersink a shoulder in the hole so the insert fits flush...you do not drill this in very far at all, in fact it will stop moving forward.




now this bit that cuts the threads into the smoothed interior of aluminum, so that the insert will screw in



The hole ready for the insert



Now, screw in the insert and really tighten it in with this bit





The finished product





Replace cover tightening bolts to 8nM

I used wd40 to lube all drilling and it is very helpful to have compressed air to blow out the bits of shaved aluminum.

There are a few inserts in the kit, but I really hope they go unused.

John

[stilldking]

Nice! I've only used Heli-coils, but am glad there's a reference in case I can only find Timeserts.
Thanks for the pictoral.
JC

[CycleRob]

I have used Time-Serts many times in my NJ shop and have posted here about this excellent quality product before. They are absolutely the very best thread repair there is! Plus, YOU can own and use the small toolbox set that performs the professional repair for about the price a shop will charge you for just 1 thread repair. By comparison, a Heli-Coil insert is like a dirty bandaid. The Time-Sert one piece steel oversized insert is actually stronger than the original threaded hole in the Aluminum head. The larger diameter longer length of the one piece steel insert provides that extra holding power.

Usually it's the 8 x 1.25mm footpeg bracket Aluminum female threads that strip. BTW, It's very important for the operator to carefully maintain a machine-like perpendicular axiality when hand drilling/chamfering/tapping the hole. I recommend it be a "zero beer repair", especially when you're doing it to a very expensive, still attached, Aluminum cylinderhead.

.

[Dr. Strangelove]

You're absolutely right, CR, re the zero beer repair. It is sobering to see those aluminum shavings emerging. It is not a procedure that lends itself kindly to "good enough."

There were two spots where I though the instructions could have been clearer.
When using the bit that makes room for the shoulder of the insert, being a novice at this, I didn't know how far that bit was to drill in. It is only the thickness of the shoulder, 1-2 mm. It will not drill all the way in though, which on first reading I thought I was suppose to do, not realizing that it was making room for the shoulder only.

Second, when using the bit that seats the insert, the op is advised to screw it down until tight then apply a little more pressure and it will release. This suggests to me that you keep screwing in the same direction and once a certain resistance is achieved the bit "automatically" releases, like a torque wrench.
Not so. You unscrew it.

It could have been a little neater, I think, but not for lack of trying to keep the bits true. The original hole does serve as a guide, but I could see that sloppy work could mess things up.
Definitely a case where patience is a virtue.

In the original post I found about it, I saw that you said it would take about an hour. I was concerned that it was not taking me that long, maybe 45-50 minutes. Test ride this afternoon or tomorrow.

John

[boxermania]

John

Very nice of you to post the steps along with the pics, as it appears valve cover bolting has been a topic of conversation lately.

That being said, I question the condition of some of the OR instruments, specifically the tap holder......please.....please!!!

On the topic of thread savers and as CR so indicated Timesert is superior to Heli-Coil, but there is another thread saver by the name of Casesaver, this one has fine threads on the OD and are highly recomended for applications where metals are ofter than aluminum, in this case magnesium, like on the early Porsche engines. Yes, coaese threads hold on better on stronger materials, fine threads do so in softer materials.

[Sunbeemer]

Nice Job, Doc! And thanks for documenting it so clearly, and with feeling! I feel I could do it, but I would probbly have used a drill motor with their bit to drill the hole, or is that procedure contraindicated per prescription?

[Dr. Strangelove]

I think a motorized drill is definitely contraindicated. You need the feel of the bits to gauge the amount you're cutting with each turn. I think things could get out of hand very quickly with more power than your hand.

And it is not that hard to turn. While it is true that I have a raw area on the palm of my right hand in the shape of New Jersey and this arose from turning the countersinking bit, it happened because I didn't realize that the countersink didn't have to go very far at all and I kept turning it even after it stopped biting--except into my hand.

And, Al, I don't understand this

That being said, I question the condition of some of the OR instruments, specifically the tap holder......please.....please!!!

OR only means Operating Room to me. Or are you casting aspersions at the rusty hue of my tap holder? That patina arose from a little blow we had a while back (called Katrina) and it was sitting in a tool box that was, unknown to me, filled with flood water for weeks in my "basement" which in New Orleans means the ground floor of my home.

Wd 40 made it look a lot better and it's operation is top notch

John

[boxermania]

Yes, John, celebrating and ribbing at the same time, I was referring at the "patina" on the tap handle......

[CycleRob]

"Second, when using the bit that seats the insert, the op is advised to screw it down until tight then apply a little more pressure and it will release. This suggests to me that you keep screwing in the same direction and once a certain resistance is achieved the bit "automatically" releases, like a torque wrench.
Not so. You unscrew it."

The installation instructions were correct. It gets easier to turn after it expands the deep end of the insert into place. Once the shoulder of the insert bottoms out on the machined ridge (that looks like it went too deep), you are to continue tightening the tool so the end of the insert down inside the hole is flared outward by the installation tool, expansion staking in into place for good. The problem you experienced is that your installation tool likely hit the bottom of the blind hole before that happened. It would not be able to turn in deeper so it can flare out the deep end of the insert. It likely got tight all-at-once when the tool hit the bottom of the hole. In that case, you either drill the hole deeper ( !!!! ) -or- put (permanent bonding "242") Red Locktite on the insert's OD threads if/when it comes out of the hole at some future date.

FYI: Drilling that hole a little deeper is not recommended because that one will come out into the air space between the fins, causing engine oil to weep past the threads and make a mess.

.

[Dr. Strangelove]

makes sense... and probably all related to drilling the shoulder a little too deep. Live and learn.

But, I took a "spirited" test ride today and all seems fine. But, I will remember the red locktite, if and when.

And yes, it did get very tight within a short distance and I was afraid to turn more, afraid I would strip out the hole I just made.

You should write the instructions. Then, I suppose they are token instructions, the timesert people figuring that anyone doing this is not doing it for the first time. If it happens a second time, I will remember your sage advice and experience.

BTW, in researching this I came upon a bit of your advice that has proved very valuable: Make the O rings on the oil filler cap as dry as possible and it won't weep oil. That really works. Thanks.

John

[jfslater98]

Thanks for the walkthrough on the timesert. Probably the best one I've seen, and I'm sure one of these will be in my future.

Question: I noticed tiny shavings on the valve gear. Are you going to do an early oil change? Or are they too small to worry about?

[Dr. Strangelove]

yeah, I was concerned about this also. I blew things out frequently with compressed air--100psi.
This was part of the 60k mile service so after a short test ride I changed all oil fluids including the filter.
Also,the one picture with the threading bit that shows so many shavings...I did that one on purpose to show the shavings. In all other steps I didn't let it get that full.

John