BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

I have now played with my 2011 R1200R Classic for 2,000 miles and whilst I love the bike I find in many areas it is a compromise too far and is forcing me to look at high cost modifications. The bike is, for now, stock standard with ASC/ESA/Akrapovic Can/BMW TopBox/BMW Side Cases.

My previous recent bikes have been Buell XB1200XT Ulysses, BMW R1150GSA (2 - total 50,000+ miles), BMW R1150R Boxercup Special Edition.

Firstly, few after market accessories fit the bike. I had to go with the BMW Side Cases & TopBox as none of the after maerket suppliers as yet provide fitting kits for the latest modeol R1200R. This I am sure will come in the near future but has left me with panniers and topbox which are all style over function. You can get a full face in the topbox but it leaves no space for anything else let alone attempt to put a laptop in it!!! I tried an Illimberger hugger which was meant to be the only one that provided, out of the box, support for ASC but there has been a design change with the introduction of ESA which means that it will not fit on an ESA model (danger of wearing through the ESA cable). I was unable to find an OEM small screen so had to go for the BMW version at BMW prices.

I love the responsiveness of the engine and the way that it is not sluggish in running through the power range. The vibration that was evident in my 1150RT and 1150GSA's at 4500rpm is still evident though not as pronounced. The mirrors are as useless as the Buell's mirror - all you can do is see the shape of the cars behind with no clarity as to see if they have blue lights mounted on top. The roll on above 4,500 is wonderful (which is pretty near the top of the Buell's useable power range).

The bike is a stunner for all the magazines say. Parked up besides Ducati's and the 1200S onlookers come over and look at the strange beast that does not look like a plastic toy. Even strangers in the street stop to look. Makes you feel good.

But what are the bad points? The handling is rubbish and I just wish I did not have ESA so I could replace the suspension. The issues seem to be related the the length of the chassis, the seating position and the lack of weight over the front end.

Firstly, I have noticed a tendency for it to step out at low speed of right hand bends when turning the wick-up. I know that this is the torque from the shaft drive but the frequency of it and the speed of rear end stepout even made me question if I had my foot on the rear brake. I believe that the quality of the rubber (those round things) may have an impact as when they warm up the problem disappears but that should not be that neccessary on a bike of this power/torque that is made for the street.

Secondly, it does not turn in that quickly. I know the Buell was a faster turning bike but I find the headstock angle compromises the turn in more than it did with the GSA. The GSA, from memory, seems to have been a faster turning bike.

Thirdly the bike is incredibly sensitive to weight distribution. At high speeds if you are too far back the front end road contact decreases both in weight and surface area which is not helped by the lack of feel that comes from a telelever front end. This means that above 110mph (indicated) the bars start to shake and the front end becomes very loose. Self preservation (fear!!!) forces you to back off. Replacement of the steering damper with one which is adjustable would probably remove the shake but would compromise low speed turning and is not going to increase the front end contact area or weight on the front. I have also found that the bike is incredibly sensitive to the weight in the topbox or if the topbox is mounted (leverage principle as the mounting is very high). It has been suggested that with the topbox or even without I could ride with Sports/Pillion/Luggage setting to raise the rear end to apply more pressure on the front. The problem with this approaches (raising rear end & moving weight forward) is that it lightens the load on the rear end which will make the bike more likely to step-out to the rear. Anyway what is the point of ESA if you have to ride on one setting only! The big warning from this is DO NOT OVERLOAD THE TOPBOX.

None of this is helped by the footpeg positions. The standard seat (which forces you forward) means that it is really not comfortable for riding more than 1 hour at a time. If you are forced into a forward position the footpegs need to be moved back. Of course moving them back and moving the body forward means that the bars are no longer comfortable. They are pretty wide as standard and the bar end weights are pretty heavy. I would not recommend replacing those bar end weights with the OEM silver versions which are much, much lighter and result in increased vibration.

But, and this is a big but, I love the bike. It seems that I am going to have to learn to ride it differently. Maybe something can be done with the suspension. I am visiting a suspension expert next week to see & I am also changing the seat to one which will give me freedom to move around (a 2010 R1200R seat reshaped and recovered). I am also going on a track based training day so that I can play around with the most appropriate style (California Superbike School). With this I have dropped down to the Level 1 Beginner Class (from Level 4) so that I can relearn or learn a new style. And perhaps I will not be able to do the speeds or times on a track that I used to be able to do with my 1150GSA (alloy wheels, Bitubo front & rear shocks, Staintune, whole bike lowered by at least 2 inches) which will be a shame but I am sure that I will find different ways of enjoying the bike.

My conclusion is that it is a lovely bike. The Buell handles better but the quality is poor and things keep on breaking. The GSA was a better overall bike but is so, so heavy and not really useable in an urban environment. Also there are two many "World Travellers" with GSA's all dressed up in their mega endurance gear pretending that their 2 mile trip to the local shops is the completion of the 150,000mile journey they have just ridden in their imagination. I was happy with the GSA when it was different and had a metal rather than a plastic tank and there were not many around... It was just too big and heavy! With the R1200R Classic I get most of what I want - I just need to be comfortable at high speed with it....

Hi Adam

I too have just moved from a Buell to the R1200R and have found the handling completely different. The main change I have found is that getting really aggressive with the Buell on tight B roads was all part of the fun but the beemer does'nt seem to like it . Just have to stay smooth and enjoy the flow. My mates say its just as quick when they are following, it just dont feel like it.

Pete.

Good morning Adam:

Welcome to the group and your new R1200R.

First a couple of questions:

1. I am unclear as to which of the bikes you mention as having owned is the last one you owned recently. I presume it is the Uly?

2. What tires are on your R1200R at this point?

3. How much stuff are you carrying in the top box, and what kind of box and weight ?

4. What is your riding experience on true sport bikes ?


Now some comments on your review:

1. OEM WIndscreen issues: The problem you are having is that the redesigned instrument cluster required a different bracket design, and there is a delay in getting the brackets into the market for some reason. All the aftermarket screens should work once the bracket issue is resolved. All of we early adopters of the R1200R (mine was the release day demo bike at my dealership!) had similar availability issues initially.

2. Uniqueness of the bike: Yep.. it is really nice to not look like everyone else. My RR draws onlookers most anyplace I park it, to the chagrin of my Harley buddies who are constantly asking me when I will get a "real bike". Some of them actually will tell me it is a great bike, but never around any of the HOG group !


3. Handling, ESA, etc: Most of us agree that the OEM suspension is not that good and a change to aftermarket transforms the bike into what it should be. If you look at most BMW boards, the general consensus is to save your money and not purchase the ESA, but the good news is that several aftermarket suspension companies are now building good stuff that uses the OEM electronics: the best of both worlds. My 2007 RR did not have ESA or ASC available, and I don't feel like I was cheated. The OEM suspension is due for replacement probably this year, but once I got it dialed in for me, it is OK.

As far as your comment that handling is rubbish, I am not certain what you are comparing it to. If you just came off the Buell, I would agree that the Ulysses does snap around nicely, but remember that Erik Buell is essentially a racer who designed a really cool sport bike masquerading as a dual-sport bike with a nice v-twin.

The R1200R is not a superbike by any means. If you want a bike that handles like that go grab a ride on the S1000RR. That will eat up any current street crotch rocket without any problem whatsoever. I personally have no problem keeping up with my buddies on some well setup Hondas, Yamaha and Duc's much to their amazement. When I am doing that, however, all the top and side cases are off the bike. The RR has such a nice torque band that I usually ride in 4th or 5th and easily keep up with them while they are shifting up and down like crazy people trying to stay in the very narrow power bands their bikes have. They also sound like a group of angry hornets because they have to keep the engines spooled up so high.

The traction problem (step-out) is absolutely related to trying to go aggressive on cold tires. Not a good idea at all. Give them a few minutes to come up to operating temp and, as you have found out, they do their job properly.

Headshake: riding above 110??? Yea, mine will do it but normally not. This bike is actually the same thing as the R1200RT minus all the plastic, thus we call it a "RT-Lite" because you can actually use the same cases. You have a sport touring bike, not a true sport bike. It is a naked standard that was not designed to cruise at 110 for extended periods. You might be happier with the S1000RR or the HP-2. I can't recall ever having any headshake issues at any speed, so I would definitely suggest you do a couple of things; Check your tire pressures. On this bike they are critical to be set properly for correct handling. If the pressures are correct, take the bike back to the dealership and have them check the head bearings and preload torque. Usually a bike with a headshake problem has something wrong with those things and it needs to be corrected immediately. FWIW, I find the steering damper appears to work, but I have never had a headshake issue at all, and a number of people on this board have removed them without any adverse effect.

Seating position: I have sat on the new "Comfort" seat for a total of about 1 minute, so I cannot comment on seating position other than to say that I hated the OEM seat on my bike, and replaced it with a custom aftermarket that is far superior to the OEM. Your seating position problem may also be related to the OEM handlebar position. A lot of us, me included, added riser/bar-backs and solved that problem (which our backs thanked us for!). Again, the new bar clamps mean you will have to wait for the aftermarket to catch up, but that change alone should correct seating position issues you are mentioning.

4. You have 2000 miles on the bike. That is way too early to start fiddling with a lot of major changes. You are still getting to know the bike, and I would suggest you do nothing until, at minimum, after the 6000 mile service point. By then you will begin to know what you want to change and will save a whole lot of money in the process. Start with things that bug you most, and fix them, then ride a while and see how the change effected the issue you were having. If you try too much at one time, you will never get it dialed in properly, spend a whole lot of money and never be happy. It took me about 3 years to get mine dialed in perfectly for me.

Again, welcome to the group !

Doug

Doug & Pete

Yes my previous was the Uly. It really does snap on the twisties and it was a pleasure to ride. It is short in comparison to the R12R but was not good for the motorways (well at least not at my fitness level). The quality was just not up there with BMW (I moved from a GSA to the Uly) and had constant warranty claims.

The tyres are Metz Roadtec Z8's which came with the bike & I am too much of a skinflint to change with them unworn. I am waiting for the first puncture (which around Liverpool & the Dockroad happens every 4-6 months). I agree that the tyres need to warm up but I would not say I am being too agressive. The Uly & the GSA's did not need the 10 minutes of riding to get sufficient heat - these are road tyres not track tyres so I have a feeling the sensitivity is due to my weight distribution early on the ride (probably a bad habit I have picked up).

The Topbox is the BMW Small 29 litre TopBox & yes I do carry a lot in it (tools [quite a few], torch, disk lock, rain gear, bungee straps, tyre pressure gauge, butties, smokes - perhaps I can leave out the butties ). I still have not down-sized my mind from the GSA but I never used the tools much anyway.

Riding experience on sports bikes is not that much. I have owned an R1150S Boxercup Special edition, a Buell XB12R Firebolt, Buell XB12S Lightening and a Honda CBR600RR as second bikes and used those both on track-days and the road. Also done a few track training days on an R6. I will never be a knee-down guy and at 59 I am not that fussed about that. It would be interesting to see my times on the R1200R v the GSA on the same tracks as I took the GSA to a few days which was fun especially being able to leave the braking late (the Bitubo shocks & good tyres really helped) - that would really get the slower people in the group upset as they would blast past me on the straight and I would grab them in braking and pass them coming out of corners using the low-end torque. Not sure I would have the confidence yet on the R1200R but that will come.

As far as Harley my local HD dealer could not cope with the Uly not being sparklingly clean when put in for service and repair (often). My bikes live outside and I ride every day (dont have a car) so the rain does most of my cleaning.

Hopefully some of the after market will come out with ESA compatible shocks but I think that that will depend upon the volume of sales that the R12R with ESA achieves. Unfortunately early adopters are always at a disadvantage.

Thanks for the pointers on the head-shake. I will check the tyre pressures and if that is not the problem get the headstock checked. The headstock bearings went on the Buell (another warranty claim) & it was like riding with a flat rear tyre. I don't expect it to cruise at 110-115 (indicated) it is just that I hit that occaisonally on short straights.

Please dont think that I am saying that the handling is rubbish. I think that I have realised that I have to ride it as a different bike to the others that I have owned. That is why so few journalists get exicted about the bike. Almost every bike is a compromise which is what my heading said. The compromise is mine and BMW's - I probably want a Rockster without the strange styling I have had sports bikes as second bikes and sold them coz I would go outside look at which bike I was going to ride for fun and chose the GSA or the Uly thus only leaving the sportsbikes for hard riding or track - which is not good for either my safety or the bank balance.

I agree I should wait before making major changes which is why I have waited 2k before considering the problems. I am retraining and have changed the seat. I will briefly fiddle with the ESA settings but am unlikely to put a steering-damper on (£300) although I might try alternate bars. I take the approach of "as few changes as posible at a time" so that I dont confuse my meagre brain. The seat was the biggest irritation - not only does it offend my eye but it also gives me knee and thigh ache after an hour.

I loved my GSA but it was too heavy for urban or to go on the back of the RV my ex had & anyway she was never comfortable on the GSA as a pillion (it was too tall & she needed a step ladder or would jump onto the back) so the Uly was a compromise but I loved its hooligan element . I know the R1200R Classic will, eventually, provide me with that refined, genteel & elegant hooliganism...

Wow,

I think I can speak for most R1200R owners on here—we love our bikes! It may not be designed for the race track or to go 120mph all day long but it satisfies most reasonable riders out there who always ride just above the speed limit or lower. It sounds like you would be better off with a crotch rocket, but then you could only sit in the saddle for an hour tops. BTW, I can do just as well as the sport riders on any day, maybe you need to let the tires warm up a bit first.

Brent

Adam, Reading your posts, it is clear to me that you mostly have a tire issue. I can't speak to the Z8, but have had the Z6 on several bikes. In each case, those tires ruined an otherwise good handling bike. I had issues with turn in and holding the line in corners with the Z6 that went away when changing to other tires.

It looks like you ride aggressively, so would suggest that you might want a more sticky compound that the touring tires most of us talk about on this forum. Perhaps Pilot Sport rather than Pilot Road etc.

Try Avons next time, and you're opinion of the bike will change dramatically.

AdamG wrote:I have now played with my 2011 R1200R Classic for 2,000 miles and whilst I love the bike I find in many areas it is a compromise too far and is forcing me to look at high cost modifications. The bike is, for now, stock standard with ASC/ESA/Akrapovic Can/BMW TopBox/BMW Side Cases.

My previous recent bikes have been Buell XB1200XT Ulysses, BMW R1150GSA (2 - total 50,000+ miles), BMW R1150R Boxercup Special Edition.

Firstly, few after market accessories fit the bike. I had to go with the BMW Side Cases & TopBox as none of the after maerket suppliers as yet provide fitting kits for the latest modeol R1200R. This I am sure will come in the near future but has left me with panniers and topbox which are all style over function. You can get a full face in the topbox but it leaves no space for anything else let alone attempt to put a laptop in it!!!

Your're kidding right ? The BMW boxes are some of the best functioning boxes out there. If you need a trunk get a car. Look at BMW's web site. R12R is classified as an URBAN bike, not an around the world cruiser. And since when do you need to put your helmet and laptop in your top case at the same time.

AdamG wrote:I tried an Illimberger hugger which was meant to be the only one that provided, out of the box, support for ASC but there has been a design change with the introduction of ESA which means that it will not fit on an ESA model (danger of wearing through the ESA cable). I was unable to find an OEM small screen so had to go for the BMW version at BMW prices.

You're whinning because you can't fit a perfectly worthless add on. I thought you didn't approve of style over function.
This is really a non-issue. BMW prices ?

AdamG wrote:I love the responsiveness of the engine and the way that it is not sluggish in running through the power range. The vibration that was evident in my 1150RT and 1150GSA's at 4500rpm is still evident though not as pronounced. The mirrors are as useless as the Buell's mirror - all you can do is see the shape of the cars behind with no clarity as to see if they have blue lights mounted on top. The roll on above 4,500 is wonderful (which is pretty near the top of the Buell's useable power range)..

My mirrors are nearly rock solid. A little fuzz when accelerating hard but perfect after that.

AdamG wrote:The bike is a stunner for all the magazines say. Parked up besides Ducati's and the 1200S onlookers come over and look at the strange beast that does not look like a plastic toy. Even strangers in the street stop to look. Makes you feel good..

There ya go again .......I thought you didn't approve of style over function.

AdamG wrote:But what are the bad points? The handling is rubbish and I just wish I did not have ESA so I could replace the suspension. The issues seem to be related the the length of the chassis, the seating position and the lack of weight over the front end.

"The handling is rubbish"...thats just nonsense.....lets see, are you comparing a 53.7 inch Buell wheelbase with a 58.8 inch R12R wheelbase. Are you ? Really ? Are you ?

A 53.7 inch wheel base is incredibally short, the Suzuki SV is 54. Those bikes are made to turn on a dime under hard racing throttle input. A longer wheelbase is for rider comfort when communting or cruising. The weight distribution is likely very close to 50/50, as with most motorcycle designs. If you're detecting a lack of weight on the front end is probably because the bike has way more torque than the other bikes you've owned. My R12R will power wheelie in first and come up in second under the right conditions. It will easily power wheelie in second with my GF on the back. So yes, I'd say the front end can feel light when accelerating all out. Why did you buy the bike ?

I can't see anyone needing an aftermarket suspension on these bikes unless you're way over weight and over packing the boxes and pulling a way over weight passenger.

AdamG wrote:Firstly, I have noticed a tendency for it to step out at low speed of right hand bends when turning the wick-up. I know that this is the torque from the shaft drive but the frequency of it and the speed of rear end stepout even made me question if I had my foot on the rear brake. I believe that the quality of the rubber (those round things) may have an impact as when they warm up the problem disappears but that should not be that neccessary on a bike of this power/torque that is made for the street..

Torque from the shaft ?......A bike of this power & torque is EXACTLY why warming up the tires is necessary !!!! Get you some V rated sport tires that will warm up in 30 seconds and wear out in 3k miles.

AdamG wrote:Secondly, it does not turn in that quickly. I know the Buell was a faster turning bike but I find the headstock angle compromises the turn in more than it did with the GSA. The GSA, from memory, seems to have been a faster turning bike...

Now you're comparing a Buell to a GSA !!! This is laughable ! Head-stock angle ? Ha !!! Refer to the wheelbase facts above.

AdamG wrote:Thirdly the bike is incredibly sensitive to weight distribution. At high speeds if you are too far back the front end road contact decreases both in weight and surface area which is not helped by the lack of feel that comes from a telelever front end. This means that above 110mph (indicated) the bars start to shake and the front end becomes very loose. Self preservation (fear!!!) forces you to back off. Replacement of the steering damper with one which is adjustable would probably remove the shake but would compromise low speed turning and is not going to increase the front end contact area or weight on the front....

Take your bike back to the dealer.....you may have a tire problem or steering head problems. Given the mirror talk you claim I'd bet on a faulty front tire.

AdamG wrote: I have also found that the bike is incredibly sensitive to the weight in the topbox or if the topbox is mounted (leverage principle as the mounting is very high). It has been suggested that with the topbox or even without I could ride with Sports/Pillion/Luggage setting to raise the rear end to apply more pressure on the front. The problem with this approaches (raising rear end & moving weight forward) is that it lightens the load on the rear end which will make the bike more likely to step-out to the rear. Anyway what is the point of ESA if you have to ride on one setting only! The big warning from this is DO NOT OVERLOAD THE TOPBOX.

I believe the top box weight limit is around 18 pounds. How much crack are you trying to load it down with Adam ?
The top box mounting is very high ? Did you say you had owned a GSA ?

I have never once noticed the weight in my top box. Of course I probably don't transport as much crack as you do.

An ESA is really for someone like myself who goes out sport riding with my buddies with no boxes whatsoever. But then the next week I may leave town fully loaded with a GF on back. When at our destination the boxes will come off and it's just her and I riding about. If you're doing the same riding all the time....well....what did you expect ?

AdamG wrote:None of this is helped by the footpeg positions. The standard seat (which forces you forward) means that it is really not comfortable for riding more than 1 hour at a time. If you are forced into a forward position the footpegs need to be moved back. Of course moving them back and moving the body forward means that the bars are no longer comfortable. They are pretty wide as standard and the bar end weights are pretty heavy. I would not recommend replacing those bar end weights with the OEM silver versions which are much, much lighter and result in increased vibration..

Was there a point here you were trying to make.....that maybe you should at least test ride bikes before you buy them ? Maybe ? I can ride my R12R for hours on end. But then I actually do that every couple of weeks. A quick run across the boarder fully loaded with crack is not going to keep you in shape for riding long distances. And if you absolutely must have absolute comfort all the time on everything then why oh why are you riding motorcycles ?

AdamG wrote:But, and this is a big but, I love the bike. ..

Adam....really ? You don't need a suspension expert Adam . You need a Psycholgist. Look how many things you just listed as problems you see with the bike. Are you in love with it's looks Adam ? If so, you started this whole diatribe out with something against form over function, but now you say....you love the bike.

It doesn't seem to handle like you want.....but you love the bike.
It can't carry all that you want.....but you love the bike.
It vibrates and has useless mirrors......but you love the bike.
It has so much torque the rear can step out on cold tires.......but you love the bike.
The front end is too light and the bike will shake above 110 mph.......but you love the bike.
The seating position is too aggresive, you can't ride for over an hour......but you love the bike.
The suspension isn't good enough......but you love the bike.
The ESA is really useless......but you love the bike.

AdamG wrote:It seems that I am going to have to learn to ride it differently. Maybe something can be done with the suspension. I am visiting a suspension expert next week to see & I am also changing the seat to one which will give me freedom to move around (a 2010 R1200R seat reshaped and recovered). I am also going on a track based training day so that I can play around with the most appropriate style (California Superbike School). With this I have dropped down to the Level 1 Beginner Class (from Level 4) so that I can relearn or learn a new style. And perhaps I will not be able to do the speeds or times on a track that I used to be able to do with my 1150GSA (alloy wheels, Bitubo front & rear shocks, Staintune, whole bike lowered by at least 2 inches) which will be a shame but I am sure that I will find different ways of enjoying the bike.

My conclusion is that it is a lovely bike. The Buell handles better but the quality is poor and things keep on breaking. The GSA was a better overall bike but is so, so heavy and not really useable in an urban environment. Also there are two many "World Travellers" with GSA's all dressed up in their mega endurance gear pretending that their 2 mile trip to the local shops is the completion of the 150,000mile journey they have just ridden in their imagination. I was happy with the GSA when it was different and had a metal rather than a plastic tank and there were not many around... It was just too big and heavy!

With the R1200R Classic I get most of what I want - I just need to be comfortable at high speed with it....

Nice knowing you Adam ....you're not long for this world so, I'll say my goodbyes now.

Your complaining about the handling? Watch as I pass a GSXR-750 in turn 4 (0:45 sec mark) at Inde Motorsport Ranch. Pay attention at 2:50 as I close the gap to the 1000 IN THE TURN. If you want to complain about anything, it's top end. Im hitting 120 on the straight, but the inline 4 1000's are topping 145.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgDgAxVDu4s

Take off all that crap you've loaded onto your bike and the thing handles like a sportbike. If it still doesn't handle properly, I suggest tightening up the loose nut in the saddle.

The stock seat gets better, give it time and it will conform to your ass.

You forgot to mention the amazing brakes. You can get on them HARD without the front end dive you'll get on any other bike, and (if you have ABS) you don't have to worry about skidding.

Mirrors? Your complaining about mirrors? The 1st rule of riding fast, "What is behind you, is not important".

Every bike has it's pros and cons. Ease up guys.

I bought my bike specifically for the boxer twin, but am getting the bug for a Multistrada. I definitely don't want a GS and won't have another RT until I get older. Buells are really fun bikes. I would get rid of the BMW instead of messing with the suspension.

I am a fan of Keith Code and have read some of his books. I would like to go to the Superbike School, but part of the reason would be to play on the S1000RR. If you do go on your R1200R, please be sure and post some comments. I would be really curious to see what specifically comes out of that in relation to our bikes.

Adam,

welcome.

My only question is this: are you riding the same bike as the rest of us?

I think maybe it takes a bit of getting used to the Boxer, but then again, you list a GS as a previous bike.
Perhaps you just need a bit more time in the saddle, and then, like the rest of us, you will just love the bike. Its the best BM out there.

Good luck with your decision.

Julian

other than the angle my mirrors are fine..clear all the way up to...um...a lot..

Anyone who uses so many technical words to specifically describe one's opinion on a bike's high performance handling, or lack thereof, AND admits to having a heavily loaded TOP BOX while riding isn't worth listening to or trying to convince otherwise.
Don't even need to comment on the rest of the reasons to ignore this chap, as it's already been covered.


Move along, nothing to see here.

No reason to get personal or nasty - but my experience is different than Adams.

I've had my 2009 R12R for 6 months and I can easily say I love this bike. It is neither the fastest, best handling, or most comfortable bike I've ever ridden, but it does all these things pretty well. I am in a place where I can really only have 1 motorcycle, so I did some research. In terms of fast, I've already ridden several 180HP+ race bikes and they're cool, but I don't need that for my ONE bike. In terms of handling I found that there were plenty of experienced track racers that gave the bike a thumbs up. I also found another group of people that had ridden these things across the country (whatever country) and had no problems. When I was initially searching for a motorcycle I wanted the R12R but was going to get the GS simply because I wanted to be able to go anywhere paved or not. Well then I saw some of Chitowns ride reports and that made my decision pretty easy. If you haven't seen any of his stories, please do so here: http://www.lostrider.com. I found this way more impressive than any movie-star duo with a support crew.

After all that, I guess what I would ask anyone (especially one who has already purchased one of these machines) is what would you replace it with? What bike would you replace it with that is not too heavy, can carry luggage, do some mild off-road, travel across the continent, handle pretty well, be reliable, AND give some feeling of character. What would that bike be?

In fact, I'd appreciate ANYONE'S opinion on that question....

If the RR blew up and I could not get another, I would probably spring for a GS. That is the closest match in the lineup right now. The RT is essentially the same as the RR, but 90 pounds or so heavier and it is really a hot ride in the summer in south Louisiana.

As to choice of GS vs. GS/A, I actually would probably go with the GSA because it saves a bunch of money on farkles I would add anyway/

As you have discovered, the RR is a very versatile bike for most any use. It is a shame that BMW does not market it that well.

To be honest when I bought my R1200R I was disappointed in the first few months. I thought I over payed for something and was thinking of doing a quick resell. My dad's buddy looked at some stats and then decided to go riding with me for a couple hours. He was on a Kawasaki, something like a ZX-14 that was super fast. Once he pushed me I finally got used to the boxer engine. It had way different shift points then my previous Yamaha sport bike. I became an instant fan in one ride. I honestly think the Boxer engine is just a completely different breed. I have fallen in love with my bike and I can't understand a lot of other bikes. I don't just ride, I commute with mine. Its a part of my life, not just a toy.

seangd wrote:
After all that, I guess what I would ask anyone (especially one who has already purchased one of these machines) is what would you replace it with? What bike would you replace it with that is not too heavy, can carry luggage, do some mild off-road, travel across the continent, handle pretty well, be reliable, AND give some feeling of character. What would that bike be?

In fact, I'd appreciate ANYONE'S opinion on that question....

I can't think of a bike that would be a reasonable replacement for ALL of what the R12R does. I've been riding bikes for 45 years now, all the bikes where the Japanese latest superbike. I've also, in my day, done some road racing. I've lived my life doing illegal road racing. And, I've crosed country and made other long distance rides.

I chose the R12R because in nekked form it's as good as any modern sportbike unless you just have to be able to do 180 mph or you enjoy a pass-time of club racing. And, I can load up the panniers and top case and the GF and I can take a weekend away from home. Or, I can load it for myself and go from the Keys to Alaska in comfort and style. Doing all this, at a mere 435 lbs dry, makes it an easy bike to live with. I don't have to watch where I park, I can even jump a curb fully loaded with the GF on back to park in grass without worry (keep your GW's and HD thank you).

Also, I'm a long time knee dragger. So unless your a regular at a track on a super light-weight sportbike, I'd dare anyone to try and keep pace with me on something like Deals Gap for example. That is, in skilled hands the bike is plenty fast and can handle with the best.

There are a few bikes that can do that, but they don't have the quality or ease of use (think pannier function & high output alternator for example) but those difference are mild and can be over-come. Although some don't have the torque for pulling double fully loaded quite as well. To name a few:

Yamaha FZ6 or FZ8
Suzuki V-Strom
Triumph Tiger 800
Honda NT700V - but you got all that plastic

seanx820 wrote:I don't just ride, I commute with mine. Its a part of my life, not just a toy.

I commute with mine too!

Or did you mean "commune"? I commune with mine too, sometimes I will just hang out in the garage, communing with and admiring it. When at work, I look out the window about every half hour or so to be sure it's still OK. And admire it. And look forward to riding it again.

Did I mention I love my R1200R?

seangd wrote:No reason to get personal or nasty - but my experience is different than Adams.



After all that, I guess what I would ask anyone (especially one who has already purchased one of these machines) is what would you replace it with? What bike would you replace it with that is not too heavy, can carry luggage, do some mild off-road, travel across the continent, handle pretty well, be reliable, AND give some feeling of character. What would that bike be?

In fact, I'd appreciate ANYONE'S opinion on that question....

i'd go out and buy another R1200R.
No doubt in my mind.

Just love this bike

AdamG wrote:I have now played with my 2011 R1200R Classic for 2,000 miles and whilst I love the bike I find in many areas it is a compromise too far and is forcing me to look at high cost modifications.

I would replace it with a computer and sit around and post rather than ride...