Clinking / clunking at idle?? Dealer can't fix it

[ammolab]

Tuesday after a 40 mile ride I notice a LOT of clinking clanking from something at idle. The sound goes away at 1600RPM but I hear a good bit of chain noise. No clink at idle when motor/oil cold.

Not a good sound! Bike is 2011 @ 17000miles. I have not done any work or changed any oil/filter in the last 2000 miles. Sound just happened and is loud enough, scary enough I will not ride until serviced. I wrote my Dealers Service Manager an email about service Tuesday...no reply yet.

Timing chain?

[deilenberger]

Does it go away if you pull in the clutch? They can be quite noisy in neutral if they're idling a bit rough.. If it goes away with the clutch pulled in, don't worry about it. And I can't recall her of any timing chain failures on the R1200Xx engines.

[GBag]

My 2011 chatters a bit loudly when idling in neutral with the clutch out. I can usually settle it out by pulling the clutch and releasing it again. I'm at 38,400 mi currently. I had a friend with an 2009 GS that had the issue but the noise didn't go away with a clutch pull. It turned out to be clip ears on the central transmission shaft. I hope that is not the case for you as the part wasn't in country and was around $600 + before labor.

[ammolab]

My 2011 chatters a bit loudly when idling in neutral with the clutch out. I can usually settle it out by pulling the clutch and releasing it again. I'm at 38,400 mi currently. I had a friend with an 2009 GS that had the issue but the noise didn't go away with a clutch pull. It turned out to be clip ears on the central transmission shaft. I hope that is not the case for you as the part wasn't in country and was around $600 + before labor.

Did he only have the issue with a HOT engine?

Not worried about cost as I have warranty until June 6th.. Clutch pull has no effect..only clatters at idle RPM. Service advisor says, "Cam tensioner" not working at low oil pressure. Will trailer the bike in, again!, next week.

[GBag]

Did he only have the issue with a HOT engine?
No it occurred regardless of temp.

[deilenberger]

My 2011 chatters a bit loudly when idling in neutral with the clutch out. I can usually settle it out by pulling the clutch and releasing it again. I'm at 38,400 mi currently. I had a friend with an 2009 GS that had the issue but the noise didn't go away with a clutch pull. It turned out to be clip ears on the central transmission shaft. I hope that is not the case for you as the part wasn't in country and was around $600 + before labor.

Did he only have the issue with a HOT engine?

Not worried about cost as I have warranty until June 6th.. Clutch pull has no effect..only clatters at idle RPM. Service advisor says, "Cam tensioner" not working at low oil pressure. Will trailer the bike in, again!, next week.

One of the cam chain tensioners would be my second guess.. Case where owning a mechanic's stethoscope comes in real handy ($3.99 at Harbor Freight - great tool - great price.) Happily, unless there is some oil pressure problem, it's an easy fix - replace it. Mine tended to do a bit of clatter at startup from the cam-chain tensioner until I went with the TWS oil - that pretty much stopped it, hot or cold. I believe there may be less draindown on the TWS.

[ammolab]

My 2011 chatters a bit loudly when idling in neutral with the clutch out. I can usually settle it out by pulling the clutch and releasing it again. I'm at 38,400 mi currently. I had a friend with an 2009 GS that had the issue but the noise didn't go away with a clutch pull. It turned out to be clip ears on the central transmission shaft. I hope that is not the case for you as the part wasn't in country and was around $600 + before labor.

Did he only have the issue with a HOT engine?

Not worried about cost as I have warranty until June 6th.. Clutch pull has no effect..only clatters at idle RPM. Service advisor says, "Cam tensioner" not working at low oil pressure. Will trailer the bike in, again!, next week.

One of the cam chain tensioners would be my second guess.. Case where owning a mechanic's stethoscope comes in real handy ($3.99 at Harbor Freight - great tool - great price.) Happily, unless there is some oil pressure problem, it's an easy fix - replace it. Mine tended to do a bit of clatter at startup from the cam-chain tensioner until I went with the TWS oil - that pretty much stopped it, hot or cold. I believe there may be less draindown on the TWS.

I have searched the net and see reported cam tensioner issues at "at start up"... None like my noise on a hot engine at idle. Will report back on the "fix".

[ammolab]

Vales checked and all in spec (waste of time) and cam tensioners changed with the noise still present. Dealer wants to change oil even though it only has 2500 miles on it and I have use this type/vis oil for several 5 to 6 thousand intervals.

Says he will not waste any more time or resources on this matter...this is normal not a warranty issue.

So if the noise is "normal" why change the oil?

[deilenberger]

So if the noise is "normal" why change the oil?

That would be a question for the dealer. Got any TWS in your garage for the M-Coupe? You might be pleasantly surprised... (and it is spec'd for the HP2 boxer engine - the high performance version of our engine..)

[ammolab]

So if the noise is "normal" why change the oil?

That would be a question for the dealer. Got any TWS in your garage for the M-Coupe? You might be pleasantly surprised... (and it is spec'd for the HP2 boxer engine - the high performance version of our engine..)

10w-40 is spec'd for the Camhead....so I hate to go up 2 grades @ 17,000 miles just to halt a mechanical noise that suddenly popped up. Seems like a band aid fix. Sort of a can 'o STP thing...

[deilenberger]

So if the noise is "normal" why change the oil?

That would be a question for the dealer. Got any TWS in your garage for the M-Coupe? You might be pleasantly surprised... (and it is spec'd for the HP2 boxer engine - the high performance version of our engine..)

10w-40 is spec'd for the Camhead....so I hate to go up 2 grades @ 17,000 miles just to halt a mechanical noise that suddenly popped up. Seems like a band aid fix. Sort of a can 'o STP thing...

Your understanding of viscosity grades is a bit.. inaccurate. You aren't going up two grades. The TWS is a 10Weight oil that behaves as a 60 Weight would at that higher temperature when it gets HOT enough. The actual viscosity isn't much different - and isn't "thicker" at the elevated temperatures - it simply isn't as "thin" as the 10W-40 will be at the same temperature. The top number of an oil rating is not an absolute viscosity number - it's the oils resistance to thinning as it heats up.

You're describing a problem with a noise that starts when your engine gets hot and the oil has thinned out.

I believe you'll also find spec'd for the camhead - 15W-50 oil (BMW's synthetic).. difference between that and the TWS is the oil won't flow as well at low temperatures (15W vs 10W) and won't MAINTAIN viscosity as well when it gets hot.

BTW - a post by you on another forum - BobsTheOilGuy - gives the oil chart from BMW:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... er=2553244



It shows 10W>=50 oil as being acceptable for your engine for temperatures equal to or more than -20C (20 degrees C below freezing.) The actual notation they used (which I can't do here since there isn't that character in the ASCII character set means:

10W - more than or equal to 50 at -20C or higher - means that an oil of 10W-60 is within their acceptable range.

My WAG why BMW didn't include the TWS in that chart (but did on the HP2 chart - an engine that is the same basic design as yours but higher output) is that BMW bike dealers don't commonly stock it.

I'm done with this thread at this point. No matter what suggestions people have made - you've already decided that it isn't applicable to your problem. I'm not wasting more electrons with further discussion.

Good luck with the bike and your dealer.

[ammolab]

Don: thanks for all your input, but I am running. 40W and a 60W IS going up 2 grades if we are talking these respective oils at operating temp....when the darn clanking is present. TWS didn't save my M Coupes bearings so I doubt it can cure any mechanical defect.

Dealer did change my oil to a thicker one (15W-50) with no change in the noise. Service Mgr. told me to pick up the bike as they could not waste any more time and resources on the problem. I had BMW call them, and they now continue to work on it with BMWs assistance and my insistence.