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Speed Bleeder help

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:14 pm
by aretoo
Looking to bleed the clutch this week, and I have done my research on the grub screw "fun" associated with these bikes.

Has anyone used this bleeder? It looks like it would be a better fit than the SB1010S that is listed on the Speed Bleeder site, as the "filing" already appears to be done :?:

Here is the amazon link....

http://www.amazon.com/Russell-639560-Sp ... ds=SB1010S

Re: Speed Bleeder help

Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:43 am
by sykospain
The secret is to REMOVE the black-painted fitment at the very end of the clutch bleed hose that's zip-tied to the frame beside the helmet lock beneath the right-side edge of the seat. It's a for-factory-use-only item ( a "Werkstück" ) and it should be discarded, whatever BMW advise to the contrary. The ideal procedure is to take the bleed hose off from the slave cylinder and grip the end firmly in a bench vice. See this:-

http://youtu.be/IrKr1IiOLvk

Remember that as Chris Harris says :- "..the butt crevice at the factory put Red Loctite on it.." so you may need to warm the black-painted item at very end of the hose, taking care not to damage the actual hose with the heat. Best use a paint-strip electric heater tool, rather than a burner. Then, when you've removed the "factory chunk" as the Germans call it in English, just fit any old 10 by 1 SpeedBleeder. Thus in future any clutch fluid replacement, top-up or bleeding operations are dead simple, just as is the case with brake fluid maintenance.
Good luck.
AL in s.e. Spain

Re: Speed Bleeder help

Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:29 am
by peels
I bled my slave circuit with the stock grub screw. no problem. needed my son to squeeze the lever for me though. as I had to hold the line and press in on the ball with a punch.

Re: Speed Bleeder help

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:41 am
by aretoo
I thought about doing the same. Need to find a willing accomplice....

Alas, I went to the dealership today as they stated that they had 2 in stock.

Welp, they had empty bags that I guess were never taken out of inventory.

I have 2 choices then, wait til it comes in, or find me an accomplice.

Re: Speed Bleeder help

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:28 pm
by CycleRob
I do NOT recommend using a speed bleeder to bleed the clutch slave! It does a sloppy, incomplete job. Besides the master cylinder, the SpeedBleeder only bleeds the clutch slave's supply line and the tiny chamber between the slave line's banjo bolt and the bleeder. The slave piston then does not move at all to "pump cycle" and push out the old DOT4 fluid.
What?? Well, the best way to bleed the slave is to squeeze and hold the lever fully to the grip, pushing the slave piston outward. If alone you can use a Ratcheting Grip Clamp to hold the lever, otherwise you'll need a helper to hold it while you loosen then tighten the bleeder screw as the lever stays fully compressed. That allows some of the old DOT4 fluid trapped in the piston chamber to be pushed out the bleeder as the clutch pressure plate compresses the slave piston. Each time you pump out, bleed out the fluid, more of the contaminated fluid trapped in the piston bore is diluted by new incoming fluid, then expelled by the moving slave piston out the bleeder hose. Making each compression rapidly, with the bellows installed on the master cylinder, will mix-n-purge out more of the contaminated, trapped fluid.

Here's what you need to do to remove the black Aluminum lump:
1--Buy the MW bleeder screw. p/n 34-21-2-330-310
2--Purchase name brand (Craftsman, Snap-On, etc) 10mm and 11mm Flare Nut wrenches.
3--Clamp the black lump on the far end, HARD enough for the plier's teeth to cut into the (expendable) black lump's Aluminum body, in a big 10 inch ViseGrip brand plier.
4--Install the Flare Nut wrench on the line fitting nut, handle offset parallel to and leaning toward the Vise Grip plier.
5--Wrap the line and nut fitting in several layers of an almost dripping wet rag.
6--Heat the black lump between the Vise Grip and the attached flare Nut wrench with a propane torch flame perpendicular to the black lump, tip of the inner blue flame just touching the black lump, for about 15 seconds then shut it down.
7--Wait another 15 seconds for the heat to transfer and melt the solid Epoxy-like Red Loctite on the threads.
8--Grab each tool in one hand and loosen the supply line's nut.
9--Oh yeah, be careful you don't burn yourself with the flame or flame heated parts.
10--Install the new BMW bleeder screw and you are ready to properly bleed the slave.

Re: Speed Bleeder help

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:39 am
by aretoo
Thanks rob!

Ordered the BMW bleeder yesterday at the Stealership. I gather it will take a week to get here.

I used a punch and did a purge with an accomplice today. Clutch engages in a totally different place now...whoah!

It will be blowtorch time next week.

Re: Speed Bleeder help

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:53 am
by sykospain
Excellent detailed post by Rob - but maybe the SpeedBleeder fitment method of maintaining the clutch fluid shouldn't be so quickly dismissed.
I always follow Chris Harris's suggested method of lightly dabbing at the end of the clutch lever for several minutes, carefully watching for and guarding against fluid spills as the tiny bubbles emerge for as long a period as half-an-hour in some instances over the past few years, in order to vent the cylinder piston assemblies properly before taking any further steps in the fluid replacement sequence. I never just do a top-up - always completely new fluid 'cos as we all know the fluid level rises as the clutch friction disc wears, the reverse of the case with brake fluid.
Then I slacken-off the SB ( thread lightly taped with white PTFE plumbers' tape for an airtight seal ) that's fitted to the end of the bleeder hose in place of the black-painted Werkstück, and then PUMPING new fluid from that point BACKWARDS with the aid of a large veterinary syringe, back up through the slave cylinder & the lines to the master cylinder, monitored eagle-eyed throughout the process by a helper, usually Her Indoors.
That's effectively what they used to do at the factory when BMW Spandau techy's were commissioning dry-clutch hydraulic bikes - so that's good enough for me ! I watched a guy do it in about a minute or so back in 2000 on a factory visit - to be much recommended, by the way, if you're ever in the Spandau area of that magnificent capital city.
Now of course new Boxers all have wet clutches - 'nuff said...
AL in s.e. Spain

Re: Speed Bleeder help

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:27 am
by racurley
So, I'm struggling a little with this particular maintenance task. I have successfully bled the front and rear brakes. Changed the rear brake pads as well. I'm not quite getting the clutch fluid bled properly. Now I have a somewhat mushy clutch lever.

I unscrewed the Werkstück by heating it with a torch (only slightly igniting my glove) and using two wrenches. I purchased a 10mm x 1.0 35mm bleeder screw and the auto parts store (picture below). Inserted this into the end of the hose until it bottomed out. Attached hand pump (like a Mityvac). Cover was off the master cylinder. I had the clutch lever clamped closed (squeezed to the grip). Basically, nothing came out. I'm thinking this was primarily because the nipple on my bleeder screw was smaller than the brake bleeder screws and the pump hose did not fit tightly. I have wrapped the bleeder screw with some plumbing tape and should have a tight fit now to try again.

Am I doing this right? I'm going for the draw out from the bottom and refill the master cylinder as opposed to the pump in from below.

https://flic.kr/s/aHsk5MQhed

Re: Speed Bleeder help

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:22 am
by racurley
Ok. That was pretty aggravating but I think I changed the fluid in the clutch, at least mostly. Had a really hard time getting a good vacuum seal on the bleeder screw. I put some teflon tape on the threads and had to use a section of the tube from the TBS to seat on the nipple. This required an adapter to change tube sizes. Wasn't a perfect seal but ok. I removed the screws from the master so I could replace fluid as I drew it off but left the cover in place. I took the large end of the Werkstück off and inserted the bleeder screw until it bottomed out. Put the vacuum pump on the screw, created a vacuum and then opened the screw a half turn to draw off the fluid. Pumped the clutch a couple of times. Closed the screw, added fluid, repeat.

So, this seemed to eventually do the trick but I could never get it as consistent as with the brakes. The vacuum pump never seems to make a steady stream of fluid. When I had mostly filled the capture jar of the pump, I called it done. Replaced the Werksück end and zip tied it back in place. Filled the master to the fill line and screwed in the cover. Drove it around the neighborhood to test it out. Seemed ok. Much better than the mushiness from before following my last attempt.

Would I be better off with a different screw? I stripped the hex for the grub screw so that's not a great option. Not really looking forward to the next time I have to do this little exercise.

Re: Speed Bleeder help

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:29 am
by racurley
A better link to the image of the bleeder screw. 10mm x1.0 pitch by 35mm from Advance Auto

Image

Re: Speed Bleeder help

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:35 am
by peels
When I flushed mine after the slave died, I just removed the stock screw, and used a screwdriver to press that ball. I was already laying on the ground, checking stuff, my kids came flying through the garage... so I had my 10 year old squeezing the lever for me. When he told me his hand hurt, I knew it was pressurizing correctly. lol :D :mrgreen: Just did that until clean fluid came out. worked like a charm.

I didn't feel the need for a speedbleeder, and still don't. though I believe I do have one somewhere in my toolbox.

Re: Speed Bleeder help

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:03 am
by sykospain
Hhmmmm...because this job is such an essential routine with our pesky, fault-prone hydraulically-actuated single-plate dry-clutch bikes, we could really do with a clear and definitive video showing exactly how CycleRob's full-drain-and-replace job is actually carried out, whether with SB nipples or with standard BMW fitments.
¿ Anybody on here know of one ?