BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/nav?page= ... -BIKE-NEWS

I know you're there Dallara...I can hear you smilling about this one.

DJ

I know you're there Dallara...I can hear you smilling about this one.

He's not the only one...

Bill

How much is the check for?

[quote="big papa]He's not the only one...

Bill[/quote]

"NO real world case ABS failure, in any situation, has ever been reported to us."

....buy what you like. I've got them, and like them plenty. Lot's of experts, lots of opinions.

Ride safe.

I got my letter from BMW a few months ago about getting them checked. Had the same information as the article. It was not scary enough to make me run right down to the dealer, since I haven't been yet.

Ditto. The only time I've ever noticed them, I needed them and they were there for me.

bimrluvr wrote:Ditto. The only time I've ever noticed them, I needed them and they were there for me.

Is that your family or the brakes.

I've not needed them yet either but I know when I do over cook it they are going to be there to pull my sorry arse out of the fire.

No real world ABS failure?

As I've posted here before:

I had one.

Towards end of a 70 mile ride in town on a warm day, lots of traffic, may have been a bit aggressive riding, I came up to a red light,grabed the front brake lever & immediately noticed the brakes had problems, out of the corner of my eye saw the big red ABS failure light on, don't know if it was on before I applied the brakes, applied the brakes ALOT harder, and came to a stop right where I would have anyway.

Shut the bike off. Restarted, no ABS failure light, and rode on my merry way. Tried some hard braking & could not duplicate any failure.

Have not had another failure in at least 4,000 miles.

My dealer said that most failures they see are related to fluid levels or bad charging systems (like the alternator belt being broken).

My fluid levels were ok & charging system ok. I did replace the battery at 2 years / 12,000 miles as on cold mornings lately if didn't ride the bike for 2 days or took 2 trys to start, the small brake warning light would come back on and stay lit. I've felt my battery has been just a tad off on voltage for along time.

My suggestion is if you have an ABS bike, the battery must be in perfect condition.

It does peeve me for BMW to say NO real world ABS failures. Thats just not true. But I would still buy my R1150R with the current ABS system if I had it to do over. I do, however, practice nearly every day coasting my bike down a parking structure (to about 10-12mph) with the key off and residule brakes only. I will be ready for the next failure.

That's an interesting and probably useful exercise for ABS owners. I have a similar exercise getting down my driveway before starting up. The instance you describe, 70 miles of stop'n'go, aggressive riding, etc. sounds similar to what the letter describes as a training-style high use failure scenario.

It's a battery voltage problem. I hadn't ridden my R since moving to Arizona so it sat for about two months. Weather was in the 80's in Tucson and couldn't resist riding to work. Started the bike and noticed that it started with two tries. Rode off and noticed that the "brake failure" light came on. Rode for about a mile, pulled over, stopped and restarted the engine and the light went off as soon as I took off.

Lawyers being what they are, I'm sure BMW is being advised to send out a notice and check the ABS.

Bud

Bud,

On the ABS RR dash there are 2 red lights next to each other. One is smaller, ABS Warning light, that if lit, you still have at least servo brakes (not sure about ABS). The other light, the larger one, is the ABS Failure light, that if lit, (except right at startup), all you have is residule brakes, which are very noticably less good at stopping the bike.

With my old battery, 2 tries to start & the small ABS warning light would come back on, ride 1/2 mile, shut down, restart, & all ok.

At least the above is to the best of my knowledge & experience.

There was a rider on this board from Asia (Thialand?) that seemed to have had ABS components fail due to his riding the bike with a bad or weak battery. As I said above, with the ABS system, I think its important to make sure your battery is tip top.

BTW, when I had my ABS failure, my riding was way, way below what should be causing any failure. If thats the threshold, there is a problem.

Rob,

You're probably correct on that one. I can't remember if it was one or two lights.

I've never had an "actual failure" as you described; the brakes worked fine, just the warning light was on. I'll drag it in and have them go through it.

Still, if the battery doesn't have enough power in it to run the hydraulic pump for the ABS I could see where the system would fail as you described......but your engine was running and therefore your alternator should have been charging...mmmmmmm?

Bud

The small red light means the system is reading a fault code, mine comes on all the time with my clear alternitives LED tail light. I had dealer check the codes and that is what they told me, its reading a breaklight failure. I keep meaning to call Clear Alternitives about this and to see if I used and hooked up the right resistor. The light itself does work fine all the time.

From MC-USA's review ride of '05 RT:

While we appreciated the extra safety provided by ABS, and the linked braking was transparent enough not to be intrusive, we're not entirely sold on a motorcycle needing power brakes. Sure, the twin 320mm floating front discs and single 265mm rear disc (and Brembo 4-piston calipers) provide plenty of whoa action, but the power-assist makes feedback feel unnatural. And when the bike is not running, there is only about 5% of braking power available, which can make for tense moments when pushing it around your driveway.

In one disturbing instance, the ABS malfunction light glowed back at me as I began to ride off from a stop, and I noticed the brakes' power assist wasn't functioning. I kept grabbing the brake lever to activate it, but it wouldn't respond to repeated attempts. I pulled the brake lever once more and the power brakes had suddenly and magically turned on, nearly catapulting my body through the windscreen! I'd much prefer having a direct connection to the bike, but Kenny had some different thoughts.

Bill

Unfortunately, most (if not all) of these error encounters are not ABS faults, but SERVO-ASSIST faults. These have nothing to do with whether or not the ABS is actually functioning, only that the servo-assist system check has found a fault (99/100 times it is a lower than optimum voltage issue). Mine (2002) only lites the error light because I have 2 sets of Hyperlites off the same circuit as the taillight. I haven't had a "failure" of any type, only error warnings, easily remedied by killing/restarting the engine. There are two absolute no-nos when starting this ABS/servo equipped bike: hands/feet OFF the brakes until the engine is running smoothly (IE, don't touch the brakes once you've turned the key from off to anything else), and the bike wants to see forward motion to "read" the ABS rings - backward rolling before forward rolling can induce errors either immediately or 2 hours into your ride. In this case, the light comes on, servo-assist craps out, and you need a change of undies. The fix? restart the engine; and try to avoid the above 2 no-nos. 24,000 miles gives a few lessons. In the MC-USA quote above, the rider had not allowed the ABS "reader" to acknowledge the rings, and the whole servo-assist/ABS system hadn't fully booted.

Hm. So if you stall the engine going up a steep incline with a red traffic light at the top...You have to roll it -- with 5% brakes -- to a place where you don't need the brakes before starting?

Maybe I'm glad I don't have ABS.

I would be MUCH more worried about stalling a bike on a steep incline (in traffic!) than whether or not I had ABS. In that (extreme) case, you would get the heck out of harm's way by restarting the engine, getting across the intersection, and if the "error" light is on, pull over to a safe spot, and just restart the bike, and ride away. The sequence of how to do properly becomes second nature after a little time with the bike. I had to think about it to actually describe the process. Your stalling scenario sounds much more dangerous than improperly starting the bike. ABS beauty is in the eye of the owner.

NoRRmad wrote:Hm. So if you stall the engine going up a steep incline with a red traffic light at the top...You have to roll it -- with 5% brakes -- to a place where you don't need the brakes before starting?

Maybe I'm glad I don't have ABS.

If you just stalled the engine, you still have full servo and ABS action. Don't switch off the ignition, hold the brake (with full servo power), pull in the clutch, push the starter button, off you go. Where is the problem?

Stirring the pot more...seems things aren't any different for new models"

http://www.bmwk1200s.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2185

Bill

Paul, you are 100% correct.

Collyers,
I think you CAN have the brake on while the ABS systems go through their checks, but you are right it may cause an error code. In a start on an incline I do believe I have held the bike with the brake & not had a problem.

I do like your comment about not rolling backwards and applying the brakes first thing after startup. I may be guilty of that & will have to try & notice any problems.

I agree with you that the system becomes very second nature. I think the residule brakes are more like 50%. I do know I can lock either wheel with the residule brakes if I try. Just takes more brake force.

I have a theory the whole servo ABS brake system was developed for heavy bikes like the LT, for which it would most likely provide real benefit. For a lighter bike like the RR, I could live with non servo ABS brakes.