BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

Has anyone moved the charcoal canaster on their bikes? I would like to know if it will fit under the gas tank of a non abs bike. (where the abs componets would be)

What is the down side of just removing the canaiter all together?

That subject came up in a recent post in response to a question I had about that "gaping space" under my non-ABS fuel tank. I don't know how to paste in a thread, but search "under tank anatomy" and you'll find it (it was just last week -- should be on the top level page of the forum). Let me know if you can't find it.

Bottom line: Turns out people have relocated their canister under the tank.

BMW don't even put them on the bikes they ship down under..so it's not needed at all.

I think it's a California thing..there's even wasted space in the right system case because of it...geees..why do we all have to suffer.

DJ

786

Check here for previous post on related subject and see CycleRob's photo :

http://r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.php?t ... sc&start=0

First, KEEP THE CANISTER. It's more than environmentally friendly . . . it keeps ANY smelly gasoline fumes from EVER being vented into your garage, causes absolutely no harm to performance (other than it's minor weight), allows you to burn and use fuel vapors that normally would escape into thin air -and- isolates the fueltank's vapor vent system from dirt & water. It's existance is beneficial and symbiotic. I'm glad I finally have a bike that NEVER smells from gasoline. The canister gets trashed by people more concened about "the look", possibly not aware of it's value, many times using an incorrect hook-up . . . one of which can allow intake manifold vaccum to collapse the $$$$ fueltank.

Second, Because I appreciate it's useful, practical functions, properly relocating it was my only desire and one of my first modifications in 2001. The hardest part for some may be fabricating strong brackets that'll survive supporting the cantilevered weight under vibration and road jarring. I used scrapped sportbike reflector brackets, a few bolts/nuts and a quality screw type hose clamp. Position the canister in there in the same angular orientation as before and you'll see the size and shape of short attachment bracketry that you'll need to fabricate or trim from raw material.

The rest involves slightly bending both the canister's lower bracket and it's unused mounting points on the bike and hooking up hose extensions. I used rigid plastic pipe left over from a refrigerator ice maker water line.

Canister relocate pics:
http://r1150r.smugmug.com/photos/12320209-L.jpg
http://r1150r.smugmug.com/photos/12320208-L.jpg
http://r1150r.smugmug.com/photos/12320217-L.jpg
http://r1150r.smugmug.com/photos/12320218-L.jpg

DJ Downunder wrote:BMW don't even put them on the bikes they ship down under..so it's not needed at all.

I think it's a California thing..there's even wasted space in the right system case because of it...geees..why do we all have to suffer.
DJ

Wow - I never gave it that much thought, but that does suck that the world has to have a slightly smaller system case because of the [U.S.]EPA.

I moved my canister before I bought my city lid system cases. I thought there must be a foreign or Canadian case p/n . . . . w/o the wasted space in the right system case that I would then ask for . . . but the parts guy said "no".

I'm a stubborn old guy with no tolerance for force feeeding of stupid designs. Most all of the time I can, after carefull thought, change things for the better. I knew this was one of those times. After a few weeks, I got brave and took out my shops 1100F degree [593C] heat gun. I then searched for non-sticking external shape restraining materials that would define the new shape if things got too soft . BTDT. With great patience and mindful of it's costly replacement, I got that curved in depression to move out the other way so my hard plastic lunchbox would fit. Cautious progress in heating and moving the bag's thick plastic is for patient craftsmen only. Just when you think it's barely enough heat, so you remove the gun's heatblast . . . it gets even softer, moves and sags. Hopefully, it's movement is stopped by your external "molds". The final cosmetics . . . it's not pretty if you look close or happen to notice it with the bag open (most don't), but fortunately the wrinkly looking panel is externally hidden otta-sight. It's still water tight. The small change in internal shape dramatically increases the rectangular object sizes that'll now fit with the handsome and trim city lids. The extra room still works out better even now in retirement (no lunchbox!!) when I make my many Lowes or Home Depot trips.

Score:
stubborn old guy=1
stupid design=0

568

But what is this thingy for?

You have both full size cases. The RR left case has a cut out for the muffler. Yours does not. Did the individual you purchased this setup from provide any other hardware? That "thingy" is part of the exhaust lowering kit and bag bracket to accomodate the left saddlebag...

786

The US is the only Country in the World that has the 'tube' fitted and it is only required in California. Incidently, the US is one of the smaller markets for BMW, smaller than the UK even, (the UK is approx the size of NH & VT combined) therefore the number of bikes BMW make that are fitted with the tube is in fact very small. So you can remove the tube in the safe knowledge that no harm will be done to man nor beast (or machine) as the European Union now has stiffer emissions than the US.

The rest of the World does not have vacum tubing connected to the throttle bodies but rather little rubber bungs that seal of the vacum take offs.

The simple reason to remove it is of course to do with asthetics - If you remove it your bike will not stink of gas.

yellowjacket,
You need that bracket thingy to use the R1150RT full sized left case on an 1150R. Put the case on and you'll see why.
Yes, we're on for August, I'll call you tomorrow at 8pm.





Without a canister, if you put a hot bike in a warm garage and close the door, the engine heated hot fuel will loose some of it's volitales and pressurize the airspace until it vents out the cap orifice provided for pressure relief. My Suzuki did it and a mandatory cool-off in the shade was needed before bringing it inside. I've had bikes dropped off and put in my shop on hot days that the fuelcap vent made a sound like someone was playing a Gazoo. . . e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-E-E-E-E-E-E-e-e-e-e


Bikes w/o a charcoal canister have a different fuelcap to provide for easy release of vapor pressure expansion. Bikes/cars WITH a charcoal canister have a fuelcap with a built in higher pressure release valve ( I vaguely remember .7 or 1 atm pressure) - - in case the canister or vent line becomes clogged. It may depend on what was done to the vapor line that went to the canister, after it's removal, either wrongfully plugged or rightfully vented to the street by the canisterectomy mechanic, whether or not fuel smell is noticed. In any case, my advice remains the same for the reasons stated in my post number 374 in this thread; keep the canister and either tolerate it's awkward looks or relocate it if you do not have ABS.

Sorry to be a party-pooper but I don't think that 'thingie' will be any good unless you are running with a lowered can.

DJ

CycleRob wrote:yellowjacket,

Bikes w/o a charcoal canister have a different fuelcap to provide for easy release of vapor pressure expansion. Bikes/cars WITH a charcoal canister have a fuelcap with a built in higher pressure release valve ( I vaguely remember .7 or 1 atm pressure) - - in case the canister or vent line becomes clogged. It may depend on what was done to the vapor line that went to the canister, after it's removal, either wrongfully plugged or rightfully vented to the street by the canisterectomy mechanic, whether or not fuel smell is noticed. .

The gas cap is the same wether fitted with a canister or not, it is simply a vent for fuel expansion / overflow - it does have a rollover valve but this is only there to stop gas from coming out of the vent if the bike should roll over. There is a solenoid actuated valve (mounted under the seat) that closes the vent when the ignition is off ans allows the engine vacum to draw through the gas tank when the moor is running.

For those that have removed the canister (for good or ill) what do you do with the tubes??? Do you plug all three and with what???

There are really only two tubes as one of them vents to atmosphere One of the tubes (the one connected to the vent onthe gas tank - blow through it and you'll hear it in the gas tank) you can route down with the other tubes near the right foot peg. The last tube (the one that connects to the soleniod valve under your seat needs to be plugged. You can plug the tube or the valve.

Next time you are in the area I can show you if you like.

Here's another thought.................does using the vacum from the motor to power the canister use any power??????

Yes, of course it does - the vacum is created by the intake sweep of the piston - it has to use power from the motor to do this.

Question is how much power?

I remember years ago cars that used a vacum take off to advance the ignition. It was considered a popular performance modification to allow the ignition to advance itself centrifugally and seal up the vacum port on the inlet manifold.

jon pierce wrote:Here's another thought.................does using the vacum from the motor to power the canister use any power??????

Yes, of course it does - the vacum is created by the intake sweep of the piston - it has to use power from the motor to do this.

Question is how much power?

I remember years ago cars that used a vacum take off to advance the ignition. It was considered a popular performance modification to allow the ignition to advance itself centrifugally and seal up the vacum port on the inlet manifold.

Off thread, but I remember one of my older brothers drove an old Rambler (that was an American car brand, Jon) that powered the wipers by engine vacuum. The speed of the wipers would change with engine speed. Weird.

CycleRob wrote: I got brave and took out my shops 1100F degree [593C] heat gun... The small change in internal shape dramatically increases the rectangular object sizes that'll now fit with the handsome and trim city lids.

Wow! Pictures, please!