Clutch spline lube (crosspost)

[R4R&R]

This was a clutch spline lube (with a few other maintenance things added) done by a member of our local club. It's probably posted on ADV rider too, so you may've already seen this.

This will give you an idea of the steps involved in the job.

http://www.bmwbmw.org/bmwforums/viewtopic.php?t=10801

[CycleRob]

I didn't realize you could take the trans/swingarm assembly off as 1 piece. Could be pretty heavy and (very) hard to maneuver alone. It will save time if spline lube is the only reason for the disassembly and there's 2 or more people. I would have also taken the slave apart and completely drained/cleaned the whole system. The transmission guide bolts make the job easier and he made his own from 80mm long bolts with the head cut off and a screwdriver drive slot cut in the end.

No mention was made of indexing the U-Joints. A random spline reassembly will cause a vibration. He did say that if you did NOT heat the Aluminum housings to 200degF (93.3C) or tried to loosen the TeleLever pivot bolts while cold, it would cause the Red Loctite to wreck the threads. Seeing how fine the (Aluminum!!) threads are, I would guess so too.

This may sound like a procrastinator's excuse, but the perfect time to do a spline lube job for me is on a hot Summer day, after a high speed ride, just before 2 days of rain. That way there is normal systemic heat well OVER 200F, softening the Red Loctite, -and- I could take my time with cleaning everything, lubing the splines and fabricating the clutch slave's new weephole drain pipe (while it's raining). Works for me!!

.

[Arbreacames]

Wimpyweak as I am, I managed nevertheless to remove and reinstall by myself the transmission/swingarm/wheel assembly in one piece. By keeping the rear wheel on, the whole assembly can be rolled around. It does cut down significantly on the time required to do a spline lube.

[towerworker]

Carlos...

What year is yours? I seem to have read somewhere that 02's were more affected by this issue. Is this true and at what milage should I give this consideration? Mine's an '04.

Wayne

[Arbreacames]

Mine is an ' 02 model built in April 2001. I opened it up at 40k miles because I had gear oil leaking onto the clutch. Fortunately, the splines were in perfect condition. I replaced the rear input shaft seal, the friction disk and bolts, and I was on my merry way for only $144. I was therefore able to quickly forgive the designers for not putting a drain hole in the slave cylinder (à la CycleRob), which would have saved my clutch.

[Eddiem]

Aloha All

Back in business...was gone for a while in Vegas....

As I read this post something comes to mind, if either gear oil or clutch fluid is spilling into the clutch shouldn't the thing shatter when you release the clutch??? Also I smell somthing like gear oil every time I stop riding my bike, but I don't see any evidence of oil leaking on the ground, could I have this problem?? How do I check if fluid is getting in the clutch without taking the bike appart??

Ovbiusly I've checked the tranny and final drive oil levels and they are both Ok...right on top.

Hope everyone is well!

EM

[Arbreacames]

Oil on the clutch should not make it judder - it will make it slip in the upper gears.
See the dark fluid at the junction between engine and clutch housing? That's a sure tell-tale sign of contamination of the clutch.

[towerworker]

Eddiem,

A suggestion on your oil burning smell. My 03 would smell when I came to a stop. A really strange burning smell but never saw a leak or any evidence of a leak. After several weeks of this I stopped at my daughter's house and her husband said there was smoke coming off my cat converter. The tranny output shaft seal was very slightly leaking and it would drip down on the cat conv. and burn off. Never leaked enough to hit the ground---would just burn off.

After knowing where to look I could see the leak by looking up above the cat and at the front end of the paralever where the drive shaft goes in. Fixed under warranty. Bike had about 26K.

Wayne

[CycleRob]

Arbreacames, Wimpyweak? Removing and reinstalling, by yourself, the transmission/swingarm/wheel assembly in one piece is a groundbreaking thinking-out-of-the-box moment. Why is this the first time I'm aware of this? I can see myself uni-cycling that big heavy chunk out of the way so clearly!

You've really been holding out on us.

.

[RiftonRoadster]

I am in the process of putting my 02 back together after having spline issues. It has 43k on it and I thought it might be wise to check it. I removed the trans-swingarm-wheel as one unit. It's best to have some help with this. Unfortunately my splines looked like this. So I had to remove the trans anyway. Input shaft got repaired and it's going back together. I did re-install the swingarm-FD-wheel as one unit with some help and that went well.


Happy Wrenching
Peter

[R4R&R]

Arbreacames, Wimpyweak? Removing and reinstalling, by yourself, the transmission/swingarm/wheel assembly in one piece is a groundbreaking thinking-out-of-the-box moment. Why is this the first time I'm aware of this? I can see myself uni-cycling that big heavy chunk out of the way so clearly!

You've really been holding out on us.

.

I was talking with Jim last night about this post and he said sure, removing the wheel/swingarm/trans as one piece is a great way to save time and that he should've mentioned it in the original post. The only reason they took the swingarm apart that time was to check the pivot bearing, which was ok.

[CycleRob]

When a transmission input shaft's splines wear out like in the picture above it is 100% a design/material inadequacy. It is also much more than a rare occurrence, as might be excused by a 1-in-a-thousand heat treating malfunction. A 2002 model with "only" 43,000 miles (69,200km) on it too. There is no way in hell the BMW factory can say that is normal wear for any M/C. In a car or truck these early failures would trigger either a complete model line factory recall or a class action lawsuit to do so. Given the thin carburized surface hardened layer is already worn away, total failure is much closer than the mileage per indicated wear implies.

Is anybody else as disgusted as I am for being financially responsible for an almost certainty that at the minimum will be a list of expensive, mediocre quality clutch/transmission parts??

.

[Sunbeemer]

Yes, I will be very PO'd if my splines fail that early. Until then I will ride it happily.
I am surprised that a Getrag built tranny would have such under-engineered or malformed parts.
Do Porsches have such problems? I doubt it, and if they did, you can bet they'd fix it.

I'd like to ask if those who have had to replace their tranny input shafts because of this failure experienced difficulty downshifting beforehand, or any other unusual symptoms?

[R4R&R]

When I was asking about the spline lube job, we were trying to come up with the cause and decided (after a few beers) that it was probably caused by a machining process being out of spec for a certain amount of trannys made. Chances are, the machining equipment is to be periodically checked, and it was oddly out of spec, so they made the necessary adjustments, and kept on cranking them out (hypothetically speaking, of course). The out of spec equipment should've been noted and assemblies returned for check, but someone let it pass. Remember, beer was driving this assumption....

[awagnon]

I'd like to ask if those who have had to replace their tranny input shafts because of this failure experienced difficulty downshifting beforehand, or any other unusual symptoms?

No. My splines looked a little worse than Peter's when I recently performed a spline lube. I ended up replacing the input shaft, all tranny seals, and the clutch plate. I had experienced no shifting symptoms or problems. I actually did the spline lube for the experience of doing it. Turns out I'm glad I did. I also found a leaking slave cylinder. Also, I looked at the clutch plate free-play through the starter opening before hand to see if the splines were worn. I could not detect excessive free-play. Maybe an eighth of an inch. BTW, my bike is an '02 1150RT with only 43,000 miles. I believe a poll on the RT forum showed the majority of spline failures were on 2002 1150X bikes. I plan to lube the splines on my 1150R soon just to reassure myself that it isn't about to fail also. I am planning to look at the splines on the RT again after the next 20,000 miles, if I keep the bike, to see if the new input shaft is wearing like the original.

[boxermania]

awagon......by any chance, do you have the old parts still. If you do, I'll gladly pay you to box them and send them to me. I have been looking at this failure mode and think that I can present a hypothesis. Unfortunately, I have never taken my bike all the way down to the clutch, but do have the ability and the tools to conduct a failure analysis.

[Sunbeemer]

Thanks awagon. If boxermania gets a chance to analyze those parts, I'm sure we'll all be interested in the results!

[awagnon]

awagon......by any chance, do you have the old parts still.

No, but I might be able to get the input shaft and maybe the clutch plate. An independent shop did the transmission work for me. I'll see if they still have the parts and get back to you. If they do, I'll send them to you on my dime.

Al

[boxermania]

awagon.....input shaft and clutch plate will be great!!!!! I really would like to pay for the shipping, no need for you to incur any further expense. If you can obtain the parts, ship them to:

Al Morales
326 Shady Lake Pkwy
Baton Rouge, LA 70810

and let me know the cost and I can either PayPal you if you have it or shoot you a check.

Did the shop that did the work suggest, or ventured into he mode of failure? or had anything to say?

Thanks,

[awagnon]

Did the shop that did the work suggest, or ventured into he mode of failure? or had anything to say?

Yes and no. The main mechanic at Motorcycle Repair & Rendezvous (BMW's only) in Salt Lake City (http://www.motorcyclerandr.com), Ron Schmidt, is a BMW certified mechanic with a zillion years experience, did the work. I removed the tranny and took it and the clutch plate to him. He said he had seen a number of these, especially on the 2002 1150 bikes like mine. He thought the wear pattern was too linear to be a misalignment (in which case the wear is often tapered to one end). He wasn't sure if it was lack of original grease or a metallurgical problem. I hope he still has the parts. I shot him an email last night, and I'll call him today. Thanks for your interest.