OK, I'm a "Chicken"

[Hoosier Rider]

Hello everyone! I haven't posted lately or very often for that matter but I'm just here to say that the problems with the final drive units of the current BMW's has caused me to move in another direction. I really wanted a new R. I test rode one & was impressed but didn't whip out the checkbook at that time. As time went by & I read about more & more final drive failures on BMWs, I rethought my approach to getting a new bike. Granted, the failures are no doubt a very small percentage but with my luck, I just know I would be in that group. Also, purchasing a 1200R would have required that I part with my beloved Valkyrie but I would have done it but for my doubts of BMW reliability lately. Still wanting something different to ride, I decided on a 2008 Suzuki V-Strom for about 1/2 the price of the R. I've only put about 800 miles on the Strom, but so far I'm liking it. The purchase price also allowed me to keep the Valkyrie. But dagnabit, I still want the 1200R! If BMW would ever come out & admit they had a problem with the sealed final drives & tell the buying public that the problems had been "fixed", I would part with both of my current bikes & buy my dream bike. But I know BMW isn't gonna do that, so I'll be hanging around the boards & watching for reports & hopefully see something that will restore my confidence in BMW. I owned a K75S at one time & it was the ultimate in reliability. I'll be lurking & hoping for good things to come.

[818Guy]

How serious is this problem? Trying to understand how "bad" it really is insofar as the numbers having the problem.

I'm currently looking at the R1200R.

Thanks.

[Dan-A]

If BMW would ever come out & admit they had a problem with the sealed final drives & tell the buying public that the problems had been "fixed", I would part with both of my current bikes & buy my dream bike.

The R1200R final drive is not sealed. It is serviceable and has a hole through the middle to allow it to dissipate heat. I am not sure there have been NO failures of the newer drives, but I do not believe it is the same drive that has been failing, especially on older LT's.

[deilenberger]

How bad is it? If I had to estimate - way way less than 1% of the R12 bikes have had a rear drive failure.. and I can't recall (someone WILL remind me I'm sure) of any occuring on bikes that received the 600 mile rear-drive oil change.

I guess all we (the happy R12R owners) can do is every day post "My EWS didn't fail, my rear-drive didn't fail" - on every forum we possibly can. Fred H did this over on the Hexhead forum on the MOA forums. I think he and I can take turns doing this daily over there (especially since I'm moderator there..) Read through the postings on this forum - see how many problem reports you can find. Then read ChiTown Joe's writeups on RIDING his bike to way off places.. talk about an acid test for reliability, Joe should be getting paid by BMW-Motorad..

You're being scared by the "internet amplifier" - where a single failure incident is reported numerous times on numerous forums/boards, and then repeated by numerous people. It makes minor problems appear to be HUGE problems.

I've owned a K75S, I owned a K100RT - the Roadster has beaten them hands down for reliability. No comparison. I haven't felt the need to (1) R&R the transmission to lube the clutch splines (2) Replace the hall-effect sensors because they're known to fail (3) Replace the $2,000 ABS computer (4) Send my rear-drive out to be repaired while I order a new driveshaft (5) Replace the transmission because the shift-drum was soft and wore out (6) Replaced a failed water pump where the front nut came off the shaft and ate a hole in the front cover of the pump (6) replace 6 sets(!!) of rotors due to brake shudder (7) replace 2 sets of wheel bearings due to brake shudder (8) Etc.. etc. Instead - I'm out RIDING my Roadster or Farkleizing.

So far on the Roadster, I've changed the oil twice, I've adjusted the valves twice, and one hinge screw on a saddlebag was replaced, and one "C" clip on a saddlebag latch was replaced. Total cost of the warranty items has been less than $1.00 so far - and we're closing in on 13,000 miles now.

The bikes aren't troublesome - the reports are. There is a big difference.

To the OP - it sounds as if you're more comfortable with Japanese hardware. Nothing wrong with that - but you're missing out on one of the most enjoyable bikes to ride that has ever been made.. and that's a shame since it really isn't justified by reality...

[Lost Rider]

You post on a BMW forum how you bought a vstrom because of the remote possibility of a final drive failure, though there has not been one reported in here or anywhere else online on a R1200R that I've seen? Because of hearing something from your baby's mama's cousin's brother's aunt, who was sleeping with a guy that heard the final drives fail on BMW, but had never owned one because he lost his welfare support?
You sir, are an idiot not a chicken. Or maybe the BMW was really out of your price range so you found a (BS) reason to buy a cheaper bike.
Either way by posting erroneous, unfounded, and just plain stupid comments you are helping perpetuate this myth about BMW's. But hey on the bright side, it helps keep the riff-raff off the finest , most reliable motorcycles in the world....

[Dan-A]

You sir, are an idiot not a chicken.

OUCH!

[Hoosier Rider]

Sorry Guys. In no way did I intend to disrespect your bikes or this forum. Yes, no doubt I did fall prey to the internet amplification of a situation. If you notice, I did say that there might very well be an "R" in my future. I was at my local dealer again yesterday looking at one. It just takes me a long time to "pull the trigger" on certain purchases. I wasn't touting the Strom as a BMW beater at all. It's kind of a stopgap on my way to the R. ChiTown, I have read many of your posts & found them to be very enlightening, especially the maint. tips & procedures. This is the reason I don't post a lot on boards. I don't seem to be able to express myself in writing with the correct emotions. I'm sure if we were talking face to face, this situation would not have gotten off to a bad feeling between us. By the way, as far as I know, no one in my family has ever received welfare. I could have paid cash for the R as I did for the Strom. Sorry again guys, maybe I'll be back next Summer Riding a new R.

[Hoosier Rider]

Sorry Guys. In no way did I intend to disrespect your bikes or this forum. Yes, no doubt I did fall prey to the internet amplification of a situation. If you notice, I did say that there might very well be an "R" in my future. I was at my local dealer again yesterday looking at one. It just takes me a long time to "pull the trigger" on certain purchases. I wasn't touting the Strom as a BMW beater at all. It's kind of a stopgap on my way to the R. ChiTown, I have read many of your posts & found them to be very enlightening, especially the maint. tips & procedures. This is the reason I don't post a lot on boards. I don't seem to be able to express myself in writing with the correct emotions. I'm sure if we were talking face to face, this situation would not have gotten off to a bad feeling between us. By the way, as far as I know, no one in my family has ever received welfare. I could have paid cash for the R as I did for the Strom. Sorry again guys, maybe I'll be back next Summer Riding a new R.

[Hoosier Rider]

See how internet ignorant I am? I posted twice & now can't get the 2nd one to delete. Oh well.

[Lost Rider]

Sorry Guys.

Since you didn't bite...
Awe, don't pay much attention to me anyway, I'm all doped up and in pain with a broken foot... I wasn't inferring that you were on welfare.
As for the rest of it, if you'd have asked here, on MOA, or ADVrider I'd imagine you'd have gotten the same answer from all - BMW has taken care of the problems that seemed to plague the early R1200GS's.
BMW will never admit anything, 1000's of satisfied riders speaks for it's self.
Repeating second, third, and forth hand info is what got you to this place of doubt in the first place.
Have fun with your strom, not too many bad things said about those bikes anyway.





nothing like a little controversy to get a thread going...

[TAG-Caver]

A V-Strom is a great bike, I parted with mine to get the R12R since I won't own more than 3 bikes anymore. The DL1000 offers a great roomy riding position, a little more fuel capacity and a strong torquey motor. I fixed my windshield buffeting with a jigsaw, so that cost very little. I wanted a bike that was a little lower to the ground and easier to service so after scouring the internet and poking through magazines, I wound up with my R12R. The FD failures are well publicized, but once you get past the hype of some boards it appears to be related to a batch of inferior bearings and the decision of BMW a couple years ago to never change the FD oil. They now recommend the oil be changed at the 600 mile service and I haven't read of any R12R FD failures. Anyway I'm sure you'll get lots of enjoyment from your Vee, I sure liked mine and if I was Jay Leno, I'd have kept it for sure.

See you around,
Kevin

[AllanCook]

With the exception of Rob Nye, I don't personally know anyone who has experienced an FD failure. One problem with hanging around these boards is the catastrophization of problems. A single problem may be reported and repeated in many places so as to give the impression of a catastrophic failure when in fact the number of documented failures is a tiny fraction of total units. My R12R is my second Beemer, and I've never had the slightest problem with either one. I wouldn't let some unauthenticated reports dissuade me from a damn great bike.

FWIW. YMMV.

[Airshaft]

S#@t, as much as part of me cant be bothered replying to this I'm just Fu%$ing compeled to.
Only some of the first GS's failed. Much steeper angle on the shaft and lots of off road abuse and there was no recomendation of final drive oil chenge = to smal percentage of failures. SO FU#*ING WHAT, three years waranty who cares. Would you not want to F#&k Pamala Anderson just because she might be on her period . OHHH BMWS's suck anyways see http://www.brainsweb.co.uk/uploads/the-wrong-bike.wmv
Too Much wind, too much vibration, shaft might fall out, the sky might fall blah, blah, blah. Theres NO PERFECT anything, life is one big F'n compremise.
OK, I probably shouldnt navigate this keyboard after few drinks and a long week at a bike shop

Oh yea, had two Vistroms prior to my R12R. You just keep beliving it's worth the savings.

[towerworker]

Hoosier Rider--

I have to compliment you on your restraint. After reading ChiTown's blasting you I thought ....What the Hell???? You even apologized when you were not the one that needed to.

Then I saw ChiTown's next post so I knew all was well. You are exactly the sort of person we need riding an R............you have all the earmarks of a gentleman!

Good Luck!

Wayne
04 R

[Daryl_stamp]

BMW's reputation for reliability and an early '80s ad showing guys w/ multiple 100K mile bikes is what made me want to buy one.
After putting 15K miles on mine since Aug '06, a couple of longish (for me) trips and a few new tires I'm glad I did.
Concerned about clutch spline failure? Absolutely.
Keep me from riding it? Never.

Buy & ride what suits you. When it fails you tells us about the adventure & what to learn from it. The only things that never fail are those that aren't used to the point of failure.

DLS

[Dan-A]

Would you not want to F#&k Pamala Anderson just because she might be on her period . OHHH

Yuck.

[ShinySideUp]

...I posted twice & now can't get the 2nd one to delete.

Hoosier:

To delete one of your posts:

1. Log in to the board
2. Find your post that you want to delete.
2. Between the "Edit" and "Quote" buttons is an "X"
3. Click on the "X" and answer "Yes" to the confirmation.

And thanks for being such a good sport.
Other than posting under the entertaining influence of drugs and alcohol, we really ARE a great bunch here!

[Airshaft]

Would you not want to F#&k Pamala Anderson just because she might be on her period . OHHH

Yuck.

OK bad example, sorry

[WILDPIG]

WELL-- I'LL TELL IT TO YOU LIKE THIS- I GOT 500 MILES ON MY FIRST BMW-- THE BIKE IS FANTASTIC. I VE RODE AN OWNED FOR 45 YRS.. THIS BIKE IS A BLAST,, I'D PUT THE R1200 UP AGAINST VIRTUALLY ANY THING OUT THERE FOR OVER ALL COMFORT SPEED HANDLEING AN MULTI PURPOSE............ THE GIVI'S ARE NICE I GOT A FULL SET.... NOW IF I CAN JUST GET THAT REAR HUGGER AN SOME RIZOMA MIRRORS...................

[WILDPIG]

I CANT BRING MYSELF TO OWN JAPANESE,, ITS JUST THAT SIMPLE............................ HARLEYS DUCATI'S BMW'S APRILLIA;S AN MOTO GUZZI'S.... AN TRIUMPH.