Back Fatique

[JGP]

Looking for some advice.

On my 07 R12R, I have intalled a Parabellum Scout (have used both the 18" and 20" windshield) and a custom Russell Daylong solo seat. I'm experiencing upper left side back fatique after thirty minutes or so. In additional I have bar backs in place. I used a loaner R12R, the other day, no shield whatsoever and stock seat rode it 130 miles or so without any issues other than being out in the wind, and sore fanny from the seat, but no back fatique Can anyone give me an idea what is causing my fatique?

thanks

jgp

[TT RDHS]

I would guess it comes down to your posture, It would seem the main difference is your bar backs.
Try removing them for a while and see how that feels...
Leaning forward just a bit might take some of the pressure off of your spine & hips.

[ShinySideUp]

You don't say, but I'm assuming this is lower back pain. Changing the ergonomics can help, but, in my experience, the biggest impediment to being pain free is me. When you got out from behind the Scout fairing and off the Russell seat (I too have both!), you probably got more subtly active in your musculature, as your torso leaned into the wind stream and your body didn't collapse into the cushy cocoon of the Russell.

I've learned that one of the biggest causes of low back pain is a rather old-fashioned word, "carriage." This differs from "posture" in that the latter is static, whereas "carriage" is dynamic and describes how we use ourselves. For definitive education on this subject, I'd recommend looking up a teacher of the Alexander Technique. They are usually associated with acting and musical academies in larger cities. (The Israeli Air Force pilots also get educated in this way!)

For starters, put your bike on your center stand and sit on it in riding position. Begin to focus your awareness on your body. What you will be looking for: any areas of holding. As you notice these areas, don't wiggle around, stretch, or fidget your way out of them. Just notice where they are. Also look for areas of collapse. Is your head collapsing onto your neck? Is your neck/head collapsing onto your upper torso? Is your torso/head collapsing onto your pelvis? Is your whole upper body collapsing onto the seat? Don't "sit straight", which is just a different kind of holding, despite what the nuns told us! As a matter of fact don't DO anything!

Rather THINK about your head, like a basketball, rolling slightly forward and up off your neck. (This is opposite of the back-and down-collapse so many of us have developed, often exaggerated in the stereotypical posture of the elderly). Imagine a thread attached to the top of your forhead and imagine your head being ALLOWED to release upward. Don't PUT it up there; just WISH a slight release to allow your head to move up in the vector of that imaginary thread. Allow that small movement, almost below the sense register,to be the trigger for your torso, the entire length of your spine down to your tailbone, to follow your head, to lengthen upward, gently following your head. A good image: think of a cat beginning to stalk a mouse. The head moves forward, following the eyes' intent gaze, and the torso follows with the legs subordinate to this essential vertebral movement. Think of your knees leading your thighs out of being held into your pelvis. Let go of the tank!

Don't try to feel your way there. When you give yourself these mental directions, the body will subtly respond and your back will ease up. You can check to see that your lower ribs are moving with your now eased-up breathing. Imagine the breath coming into gill slits down by your kidneys. Think of your lower back getting wider, as well as taller. Again, do NOT force a postural change, but allow this natural reflex to take place. Allow your breathing to occur freely, without interference. Alexander said, "When we stop doing the wrong thing, the right thing does itself."

When done properly, (and done again and again and again, when you inevitably lose it to your old habits!) the body becomes more alive, dynamic, fluid, with less holding. The holding, in response to dysfunctional carriage, is the cause of most back pain.

You should also check your arms and hands for excess gripping. Imagine your grips covered in rice paper and you are just barely touching them so they don't stick to your hands.

Try this awareness exercise on the center stand for 5 minutes before you ride, for, say, a week or 6, and see if you notice any difference. As you build up the new habitual carriage in the test-tube of your centerstand exercise period, you can begin to apply the skills while riding, as you notice, first pain, then tightness, then holding, then lack of aliveness. Your kinesthetic (or proprioceptive) sense will become re-educated. Takes time, but it's cheaper than surgery and has much less side effects! That's been my experience. And this education is enormously facilitated with a trained teacher.

A side benefit of this kind of awareness and ease: you will be able to respond much more quickly and accurately to emergency conditions, because your body will not have to overcome the literal holding pattern. This is why the air force pilots swear by it: imagine being totally at ease in a dog fight! Or imagine floating along on your R12R!

Great athletes haven't lost this ability that we all had as children. The rest of us, it seems, have to re-learn it. Or live with chronic pain.

[Ves]

When an object moves through the air, unless it's very aerodynamic, it creates vortexes behind it (like mini, short life tornadoes), first one one side than the other. You can see this behind trucks when they are moving through snow... Also, if you ride behind a truck you will feel it... you get pushed left, right, left, right, and how fast the wind alternates depends on the speed. What I'm saying is that as air comes off your shield, if the shield is tall and flat enough, you will get vortexes coming off sideways, so you get air pushing you left, then right, then left, then right. It's much more subtle than following a truck. In fact you could be compensating for it without realizing it. This will put strain on your shoulder and neck muscles. The barbacks could make it worse because they make you sit further back from the shield, where the vortexes could be stronger.

Or, it could just be the barbacks and the resulting posture. You should be slightly leaned forward when you ride. Easy enough to find out. Take the shield off and go ride it. If you have the same problem then take the barbacks off too and go ride it... etc..

[webmost]

The single most common cause of fatique is an inability to spell.

Other than that, I found ShinySideUp's dissertation very fascinating. Stretch your back under way. Maybe get an MP3 player, listen to some music, and move with the groove.

I know for a fact that Ves is on to something too. I had a GoldWing with a wide tall shield that would buffet me unreal. My neck would get all cramped up just trying to hold my helmet from wobbling.

Have you tried changing your seat height?

[ShinySideUp]

The single most common cause of fatique is an inability to spell.

Is that what's known as a critigue?

[ShinySideUp]

Maybe we need a data point here.

Is JGP actually experiencing any buffeting at all?

I'm 6'1" and with the 20" shield on the Parabellum Scout fairing, I can detect virtually no buffeting. The extreme curve of the shield, along with the pronounced backward slant must mitigate the eddies quite well. The design is in sharp contrast to, say, the back of a semitrailer, or even the back of the typical SUV, many of which I actually find more bothersome to ride behind than the large trucks.

Even with the 10" summer shield in place on the Scout, there is no buffeting, only clean air from the upper chest up.

The Parabellum designer also designed the Rifle shield I had on my ST1100 and it too was a very quiet shield, much more so than the infamous stock screen that nearly everyone but Honda complained about.

[On the other hand, there are those who swear that I'm numb from the neck up!]

[JGP]

Thanks everyone for the input. I'm a tower of a man at 5'9". I removed the bar backs and went out and enjoyed the color that fall offers in northern Michigan. The discomfort was still present using the 20" and the 18". I installed the 10" that is fitted with SAENG micro swirl, the discomfort was longer to onset, and didn't feel as painful as with the taller shields. The fresh air struck me around my lower neck withe micro swirl on. Also, I haven't experienced any buffeting with any of the shields.

I hope this offers a bit more information for you to chew.

Again thanks

jgp

[mtl-R12R]

Looking for some advice.

On my 07 R12R, I have intalled a Parabellum Scout (have used both the 18" and 20" windshield) and a custom Russell Daylong solo seat. I'm experiencing upper left side back fatique after thirty minutes or so. In additional I have bar backs in place. I used a loaner R12R, the other day, no shield whatsoever and stock seat rode it 130 miles or so without any issues other than being out in the wind, and sore fanny from the seat, but no back fatique Can anyone give me an idea what is causing my fatique?

thanks

jgp

Without the shield the wind is helping to support your weight, basically pushing back on your upper body, resulting on less weight being transferred to the handlebars through your arms and upper back. The Scout is a very large windshield, and doesn't let much air if any get to your body. I've experienced the same thing using the Cee Bailey setup, went back to the BMW touring shield and have no more problems.

Howard

[jreinhardt]

JGP,

Would it be possible for you to post a couple pictures of your Russell Day Long saddle on your bike or email any pictures you mingt have to me at [email protected]? I am very interested in how it looks on the bike.

I am a long time Russell seat user (7 bikes) and just want to see one on a R1200R.

Thanks