Bike wouldn't start...

[pebmr]

Just started riding last week after winter hibernation. Performed 12K maintenance over the winter: fluids, plugs, air filter, valve adjustment (first time for me), added an Odyssey battery and Hella driving lights. Drove it half a dozen times, one time was a slow start-had to let it crank a number of times before it fired.

This morning, drove it about 30 miles in to the health club, tried starting after it sat about 2 hours, and it would not fire. Hella lights were off. It cranked over and over but seemed like it was not getting spark. I was using the choke lever, and also tried twisting the throttle. I could hear the difference when the throttle was twisted so it certainly appeared to be getting gas. I shut it off and tried again a few times with no luck. Then I wiggled all of the spark plug wires to be sure they were not loose, and for good measure, wiggled the wiring coming out of the tank. Tried again and it fired up.

Anybody know what's up with this? I'd hate to be stranded somewhere, I really like just hitting the starter button and going...

[philbytx]

Could well be a stick coil issue with the secondary plugs!

[owldaddy]

wiggled the wiring coming out of the tank. Tried again and it fired up.

That's where I would start. Could be just a coincidence that it started after fooling with these wires, but then maybe not.
Don

[sweatmark]

Our 2004 Rockster has similar random hard-starting hissy fits. Doesn't make any sense. I usually turn the key off, count to 10 to control blood pressure & annoyance, then try starting again. The bike has never failed to start, just takes a bit longer than I would like, whether hot- or cold-starting.

In contrast, our 2002 Roadster starts up pretty darned quick. Seldom does the older bike get grumpy during cold start conditions. Only problem was with a bad battery (fairly new Odyssey) that was defective and impacted starting power.

Even better was our 2001 Roadster - started with first button push every time.

If you experience the same problem again, don't touch a thing - just keep the "choke" (it's actually a throttle advance, as if you were slightly twisting the throttle) in start position, and give it a go. And maybe another "go". And maybe a third.

[pebmr]

I actually did give the thing a go about 4 times with the throttle advance up all the way with no firing. Battery seemed to be cranking just fine. When I did shut it off for about a minute or so while I wiggled wires, it then fired right up. I've had the bike a little over a year, and never had that problem before, even with the original factory battery that was weak.

What wiring in the harness may be a cause of this? I also have the intermittent yellow fuel light going on even when I have a full tank, that started about a half year ago, so maybe there are wire gremlins in the harness?

[iowabeakster]

It might have been a stuck switch on the side stand...clutch switch...water in the gas...or something else... it's tough to guess with the info. Did you just wash it, or ride through the rain?

The wiring harness might be causing the run/no-run situation. The yellow gas warning light could be unrelated. Try swinging the handle bars full left, full right, with the motor running and see it it stalls. Did you cut these wire ties yet? (image used without the direct written consent of Cyclerob)

[pebmr]

Iowabeakster:

You know I could've sworn those offending zip ties were cut and I looked at Cyclerob's excellent pic before, but lo and behold the right side tie was still there. Not anymore!

I have started the bike a number of times since this morning's problem, with no repeat of the issue. But, this is the 2nd time in a week it has occurred. Shouldn't be any water, bad gas-no rain yet this riding season and just put in the 2nd tank of fresh gas. Don't know about the switches.

Now, when I just started it after cutting the tie, the low fuel light was on. But, it went off when I wiggled the wiring where the zip tie was. So, at least I think I may have found the source of that problem

[pebmr]

This problem is still persistent, but intermittent. Friday I went to start the bike and it turned over and over, but did not fire. I turned it off for a while, then tried again. After about 4-5 times, I gave it throttle and with nearly a full throttle it finally caught, fired and started. Rode it the rest of the day without problems. Started it a number of times since, a couple times it did not fire but after repeated trying, and giving throttle with the grip, it started.

I thought perhaps when I had the tank off maybe I didn't get the fuel pump connection tight. So today I took it apart, cleaned the connection, and made sure it was fully seated.

Any ideas what this may be?

p.s. The low fuel warning light is still on nearly all the time. Just a coincidence that it went off when I wiggled the wiring harness before. So is this a short somewhere, a sometimes only stuck float, or what?

Any ideas will be appreciated!

[towerworker]

Cutting the zip ties will help these types of problems provided they haven't happened yet. Once these problems start and then you cut the ties the damage has already been done. You will most likely need to cut back the black protective sheath over the wire bundle and examine each wire individually around the area where the cables flex back and forth and feel for a break in a wire. Doubtful you will readily see it but you may feel the damaged wire under the insulation. Electrical problems are a pain in the arse but they are solvable with patience and careful examination.

Good luck!

Wayne

[pebmr]

Towerworker:

So may the tight ties cause the intermittent starting problems? I thought they may be the cause of the low fuel light on most of the time, but not sure what it may do to cause the starting issues.

[iowabeakster]

Yes, the cable tie issue COULD be causing your starting problems. It's hard to be positive about that...but it seems like a very likely culprit due to the intermittent nature of your problem. The wires for kill switch next to the throttle grip (in the right side bundle of wires that still had the cable tie) may have been damaged. It has happened to several folks before.

Did you try swinging the handle bars from lock to lock, (try both slow and fast movement) with the motor running? That was the tell tale sign for others with this type of problem. Dont' do this too far from home or while first in line at a busy intersection. If the movement of the handlebars causes the motor to stop...you definitely found the problem. Although, it still could be your problem even it it does not stall. Oh, the good times of dealing with intermittent problems.

Like towerworker said,

Once these problems start and then you cut the ties the damage has already been done.

You will most likely need to cut back the black protective sheath over the wire bundle and examine each wire individually around the area where the cables flex back and forth and feel for a break in a wire. Doubtful you will readily see it but you may feel the damaged wire under the insulation.

OR... The wires could be intact, but the insulation could be cracked/damaged. This could cause a short circuit.

[pebmr]

Ok, now I actually went and got stranded! Good thing it is close to work. Bike started fine this am, drove half an hour, stopped to work out, 2 hour later no start. I got it to fire twice but it was weak and did not catch, then the battery ran down. Tried jumping and cranking it a few more times with no luck.

Now the fuel pump does not kick in every time the key is turned, only every 2-3 times. I checked the fuel pump connection, and it's solidly connected. The breather hoses are hooked up correctly. It seems to be a fuel supply issue, but once it starts it runs fine. Again, it starts more often than not.

What other culprit might there be? Could I have pinched something under the tank when reinstalling (hose or wiring)? Some kind of intermittent vapor lock? Should I pull the tank off and reinstall? Start cutting sheaths and inspecting wires-and if so, which ones???

Sorry to keep posting this, but just trying to narrow things down.

[Boxer]

The QDs may not be completely hooked together.

[owldaddy]

Intermittent problems are usually electrical in nature. With all the problems we have had with the "to tight wire looms" up by the steering head, I'm betting that is where the problem is at. This is such a common problem, manifesting itself in many different ways, that it would be the first place I would start looking. It is also a cheap fix once you find the offending wire(s). If you haven't done a thorough check of that harness yet, you should, unless you cut those zip ties before rolling it off the showroom floor when it was new. Cutting those ties isn't something that may be done to prevent these kinds of issues, it is something that SHOULD be done before these problems arise, and they will arise if you don't relieve the stress put on these wires. BMW really blew it this time, and they persist in not fixing a blatant problem that is a no brainer. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the problem and fix it. I guess their engineers are not as good as we thought they were. Either that or they are just to stubborn to admit a mistake and make it right. I happen to believe the second option. Thanks to this board I found out about this issue when my bike was new and before it became a problem on my bike, after checking the wire ties and seeing the stress caused by it being to tight I saved myself the very problems you are experiencing. Many others on this board were not as lucky as I. This happens way to often, and it is needless if the factory would just make a simple change in design.
Don

[pebmr]

Well, after 2-3 weeks of intermittent not starting well, I think the culprit has been found. I disconnected, reconnected quick disconnects, pulled tank on and off again, cleaned up fuel pump connection, reset motronic again, added some heet, tried some seafoam, cut the wire sheaths and inspected wires and on occasion (usually after a 30 minute ride and then sitting outside for 2 hours) it was very slow to start. Sometimes it would start when I twisted the throttle most of the way.

Tonight I checked primary spark on the right side, ok. On the way to secondary spark check, found the coil was not fully seated with the secondary plug! I'm pretty sure this less than 100% spark on one side was the culprit. I'll be testing out later this week.

[boxermania]

pebmr

Even wth a bad coil stick the bike will start ,albeit run badly....the no starting and intermitent lights tells me that you need to slice the sheath or wire bundle cover by where the nylon ties were and find the broken/intermitent wires.

The only other problem would be water in the gas, but we have to rule that out because the bike has run OK intermitently.

Good luck....check those wires......

[CycleRob]

FYI, Anyone can reuse my pics or my album URL's to access them where they live. Here's the direct link for that ziptie cut pic here:
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r87/ ... utTies.jpg

And the clickable thumbnail URL:

Code: Select all

[url=http://s142.photobucket.com/albums/r87/CycleRob/Bike/Modifys/?action=view&current=CutTies.jpg][img]http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r87/CycleRob/Bike/Modifys/th_CutTies.jpg[/img][/url]

that gives you this clickable active thumbnail:


It's very rare that I delete any pic that I know I linked to in my posts. Also I make it a point to not have humongous sized albums on the free sites. Only real important stuff makes it.

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