ABS or Non??

[Ebet]

I'll make an attempt at adding my 2 cents while hopefully staying out of the fray! Basically, my main feeling is that I wish to support motorcyle riders, especially BMW riders, whichever braking system they choose. And my story is an anecdote that represents only my own experience, but here goes....

Other than a ten-minute test ride at a dealer's, my first real experience riding an R1150R was in New Zealand on a 10-day tour. (Gorgeous country, by the way!) I thought I was getting the ABS version but when I arrived in NZ it turned out to be the non-ABS. Well, I had logged plenty of accident-free miles back home, rain or shine, so I did not get too concerned about what brakes I was getting for this tour. Tour started - great bike, great riding, but one day in the rain a truck driver made an illegal turn right in front of me on the highway, while I was at the end of a line of riders trying to overtake a vehicle or two, and as soon as I hit the brakes, they locked up and after skidding around I crashed at about 50 mph - ouch. The bike suffered worse injuries than I did (luck, and good protective gear), and I was back riding the repaired bike within a couple of days. Maybe I could have avoided the crash with better braking techniques, or if I was more used to the servo brakes on this fairly heavy bike, or if I'd left more room between me and the truck ahead of me, etc. - geez, who knows. I still loved the bike enough to buy one as soon as I got home, and I did buy the ABS version. One crash is hardly a scientific study but when it's oneself doing the crashing, it affects you. Still, I think the brakes question is a very individual decision and that valid factors could tip it one way or the other for a given rider.

From this story, please take what you like and leave the rest. No criticism is intended toward my non-ABS-preferring compadres, and I hope none is taken. We are all riders, after all...able and willing to challenge the dominant culture of the automobile, day in and day out (orchestra, please)....How cool is that, right? Even when we disagree about details, we have so much in common compared with non-riders. I respect ALL you folks on this board and have learned a lot from your collective wisdom and experience.

In Roadster solidarity,

Elizabeth

[Lance1150]

I read 'most' of the above posts... had to start skimming toward the end... quoting quotes of quotes etc.

But, I don't think the 'noise' was mentioned... that is a big reason I didn't want them...

Along with:

If you wish to pay 10-15% more for the same motorcycle to get ABS/EVO and its complexity, maintenance cost and hassle, and inherent "grabbiness" then who am I to try to convince you otherwise?

I don't have the money to pay more, I don't like more complexity since I like to do as much as possible on the bike myself, grabbiness SUCKS, and the whirring noise, OH MY GOD, I couldn't live with that, I'm a little OCD about such things.

I imagine there are times that such braking may help... I've never had one of those times... but I also imagine there are times when having a metal body around me, airbags, and four wheels would save my ass.

To each his/her own... but there is more to it than just safety.

P.S. We drive MOTORCYCLES, apparently 'safety' isn't so high on our lists... any of us.

[bakernks]

I don't have ABS on my 1150R. At the time (2002) I didn't want it for a number of reasons: cost, needless complexity, and difficult servicing for the owner. In that order. I do no second guessing about it.
Then along comes my 2005 650GS BMW, and it does have ABS. At the time I purchased it, it was the brand new 2 spark engine version, and the typical BMW pattern was in place, if you want the non-ABS, you'd have to wait. I didn't. The ABS on the 650 makes ZERO noise, is quite transparent to use, adds very little weight to the machine, doesn't link the brakes, and is not any kind of power braking that's lost without engine power. It has only come on once that I'm aware of. That particular stop was a panic situation in downtown traffic, on one of those trendy brick inlaid areas thoughtless city planners stick in the road for the hell of it. The 650, instead of slinging me sideways and possibly off into traffic, just sqwatted down and stopped. NOW.
Made a believer out of me IN THAT for the enduro tires and light weight of the 650 it was a good choice. I still don't want the 50R version of ABS. If the 650 version was emulated onto the heavier bike, perhaps.

[leno]

While blatantly obvious your multiple misspellings were a vain attempt at humor

Actuly I'm a card carrying dyslexic and I do the best I can so sorry if my misspellings offend you. And don't worry you will not offend me as I've suffered years of people trying to make fun of my problem so I've become quite thick skined in that area.

As for being 12 years old then I would attribuate that to your obsesive repetative behavore. Please understand that it's all a matter of opinions which is all the lady asked for. You have your opinion which is great but nobody ask you to change everbody elses and to keep beating them over the head with huge long lists of meaningless drivel until they give up and go away. You are not going to change their minds but you might piss them off.

So no I'm not going to answer your question because I realy don't feel the need. I've stated my view and stand by it. But that's it I feel no great need to justify it, document it, write a procedure, submit in triplecate or have it tatooed on on my forhead.

[dallara]

Leno, leno, leno...

Nobody was making fun of you, as I thought your misspellings were intentional... though a poor attempt at humor.

Interestingly enough, I suffer from dyslexia, too... That's why many times in my posts you see "to" spelled "ot" and "the" often spelled "teh", etc. I am constantly having to go back and re-edit posts to correct these errors, so don't be so friggin' sensitive about it...

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

I didn't figure you would try to offer up any valid reasoning or proof of an emunctory piece of bavardage like:

But if you want to ride on the road in the best and safest way then ABS is great.

Why?

Because it is indefensible, and completely without veracity. You can't possibly prove such a statement, period. You can stand behind it all you want but it only serves to paint you as acerebral.

And just so it's clear to you - I really don't care who I "piss off"... I thought this was a discussion board, not a popularity contest. At least I paid to join it. Certainly if you can afford a BMW with ABS you can afford to pay for a membership to the board, eh?

Cheers!

Dallara

[Gord]

...an emunctory piece of bavardage...

Dallara - I love reading your stuff! Challenges me to keep learning the English language. I really wish I had better command of the lingo. So keep it coming my duke. I may not understand all the technical stuff, but I can revel in the splendiforousness of the message.

And no, I am not being sarcastic...

[darthrider]

Enough of this vituperative billingsgate!

[dallara]

Okay, Darth...

But only if you cicurate your gelogenic bunkum and subaudition...

And leno will stop with his incessant yirning querimony.

Or were you referring to a suburb of London, Darth?

I never imagined BMW's ABS as such a quodlibet...

Cheers!

Dallara

(p.s. - Thanks, Gord)

[bakernks]

Ok time to kill this thread
The ABS servohumming linked don't-work-without-juice brakes on some of the R1150R are the worst contraption ever to beladen an otherwise perfectly good BMW motorbike.

[scottybooj]

I didn't know that our bikes had Abs. Perhaps I should get the workout video "Abs of Steel" so that my bike can be physically fit.

If my bike does have Abs, than they are definitely flabby like a girly man!

200 Crunches now mein motorrad! Macht Schnell!!!!!!!!!!!

[Capt. Blackadder]

Jeebus H. skateboarding Chrysler... I think it's time to pop a few cold ones and untwist some knickers.

Sarah, you go ahead and buy what feels right, deep down in your gut. Whether it's a BMW R-bike, with or without ABS, or that badass do-it-all V-Strom. Frankly, I think you'll be better off going with the Strom, because you won't have to frequent this board, being populated with some truly genitalia-hair-splitting mofos... although they're amusing.

To the rest of you: chill. Trying to argue the merits or pitfalls of ABS to those of an opposing mindset is like trying to stack marbles: pointless and futile. You can't win.

[Lance1150]

And what about nuclear power plants? The WORST contraptions to 'boil water' ever created by overly technical minds.

Reminds me of BMW's ABS.

[Badger]

I have an '04 r1150r with the abs.......it saved my bacon when my mind wandered as I headed south on two lane blacktop at about 65mph. Car pulled out in front of me from a driveway and I hit the front hard and fast and STOPPED faster than I believed possible, way faster than I could have stopped a big old harley under the same conditions and way faster than any car could stop.........sold me on the system..........BUT

front brake is very grabby at low speed (is this the power or the ab, I reckon it must be the power side of things or EVO)...and it's helped me drop the bike doing slow maneuvers.......use the back in the parking lot or on gravel or whenever you're going slow......

[dallara]

Yeah, Lance!

And what about nuclear power plants? The WORST contraptions to 'boil water' ever created by overly technical minds.

A *CLASSIC* point in illustating that simply throwing boatloads of money and supposed technological "might" at an imagined nirvana pipedream often breeds more problems than it solves...

Remember when we were told that nuclear energy powerplants were going to be "safer, cleaner, cheaper" energy production facilities?

Yeah, right...

And it's not motorcycling isn't riddled and strewn with technological boondoggles that were going to be wonderful "improvements"...

Like Honda's original linked brakes...

Or the Suzuki RE-5 Rotary - which was so complex that it defied description, and was so slow, and so *HEAVY* that it made you wonder why they bothered...

Or the Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Yamaha TURBO bikes of the early '80's that promised liter-bike power with mid-sized bike economy, except not a one of them delivered on either...

There's a whole lot more I can think of, but to stay on topic, you have us recall the following:

Reminds me of BMW's ABS.

A wonderful idea, but blown completely out of proportion by folks who wanted to "overengineer" it, over-complexity it, then over-marketing-hype it along with over-charge for it in the hope they could recover their investment...

Sometimes when I read BMW's ad-speak about their "pumped up" ABS system it makes me think what they are really saying is:

"It must be good! It's German, and just look how much it costs!"



But, to each his own...

To quickly add to this - Badger, how do you *know* you wouldn't have stopped just as quick without the ABS?

Cheers!

Dallara

[Wayno28]

NON and Happy

[dallara]

I often wonder if those who are BMW's ABS biggest fans would be equal *champions* of some of the following...

How about completely "fly-by-wire" computer-controlled throttling that eliminated all chance of rear-wheel spin... So one could simply hammer the throttle without fear - or the need to learn proper throttle control...

Or what about computer-controlled "lean-bank" systems that would enable the rider to simply crank in whatever steering input he hamfisted in, yet would completely control turn-in and corner arc to whatever the engineers decided was the best compromise for all conditions, so the rider was never bothered with having to even learn about proper cornering technique...

Of perhaps a system that decided when and if the rider was actually going too fast for conditions and automatically dialled back the throttle and refused to let the rider go any faster no matter what... all at the engineers discretion as to what was applicable in any given situation, of course...

Or maybe even a system that sensed what it started to rain, and immediately shut the motorcycle down, since those engineers *know* most riders don't know how to ride in the wet... and might lock a wheel, or turn into a corner too abuptly, or might apply too much throttle and spin the rear wheel, or might even go too fast for such questionable conditions... all at the engineer's discretion and his programming, from thousands and thousands of miles away...

All of this in the interests of *safety*, of course...

After all, we wouldn't want anyone at any risk on something like a motorcycle, would we?





Cheers!

Dallara

[Guest]

I doubt that it is possible for anyone to add any more useful information to assist Sarah in her decision. The only thing which I believe has become clear is that Dallara's determination to flex his ego must be directly proportional to a lack of control in some other area of his life.

[greer]

Thank you everybody. We bought Devo's bike for my husband, and Doug is tickled to death. Now we're looking for another one for me. We'll be coming to the board with lots of questions. Thanks again, Sarah

[MikeCam]

Mods,

Time to move this thread to either Off-Topic, Pat's Playhouse, or the trash heap. Served it's purpose for Sarah and now simply a flame fest and sht heap of useless drivel.

Thanks.

Mike

[Pat]

Four days has lapsed since the original question that started this thread was posted. I didn't bother reading it as I knew the resulting multiple responses would be littered with trash talking, ego ridden, blow-hard, holier than Thou, endless yapping.

I doubt seriously that there were any stories of BMW's ABS resulting in brake failure, serious injury, and/or death. And I'll wager that there were stories of riders expressing their gratitude for having had ABS.....

I am reminded of the good ole boys a few decades ago, talking among themselves about how "that there fancy" front-wheel drive on the Oldsmobile Tornado will NEVER become an industry standard. They claimed it would be too expensive a repair, prone to more problems, and a, "...technical/mechanical nightmare that'll never take off!"

I truly believe there are traditionalists who don't deal well with 'change.' There are also techno geeks who will trip all over themselves to be the first to try something new. In between there are reasonable people who will listen to both sides of an argument, assess the facts, and make a decision based on his/her OWN conclusion.

I would tend to question the underlying motive behind some of the longer & more emotionally charged responses that were submitted. Besides, why are some people submitting a response with regard to BMW's ABS, when they in fact have never had any significant riding time or ownership (of the ABS in question) to back up their conclusions?