Motorcop style training - can our clutches take the beating?

[Mollygrubber]

I'm doing a motor officer-style course this spring, and I have grave doubts about the clutch being able to handle all the slipping required (single plate dry clutch + slipping = BAD)

I know that alot of police agencies use Beemers on the street, but in this case the officers actually try to complete the training with as little clutch slipping as possible... incredible if you've ever seen the cone patterns they have to ride!

Anybody do this yet? How long did your clutch last? Or better yet, any motor officers who can shed a little light?

Peter

[ka5ysy]

Hi Peter:

I have played with the motorcycle courses because we have an active competition down here, and I was impressed with the ability of the guys on the R1200RT-P bikes and wanted to see the RR do the course. It is fun and a bit easier to do because we have a lower CG than the RT's. The trick they (police) use is to keep the speed up in the cloverleaf turns and drag a bit of rear brake and clutch modulation keeping the RPM's up. I have not really noticed the bad burning clutch odor mostly because the courses are usually only about 2-3 minutes a run with lots of cool down time between.

The worst thing about the courses are the possibility of dropping the bike, which the RT-P's are pretty much fully protected by the front engine guards and rear case guards. Remember too, that the police side cases are the "City Lid's" so do not really take a hit on a drop.

[redwing]

Mollygrubber.... I have asked questions like this before.
The thread is on the 6th page an is called, "dry clutch damage and slow ride."
I couldn't find a way to provide a link to that thread. Several members comment on using the clutch to ride slow.
I slip the clutch for perhaps 50 ft at a time when I really need to go slow and have riden about 5000 miles so far (not in slow ride) and have not noticed any odors. When going home, the road to my home is narrow (12 ft) and a ninty degree turn into my driveway with about 2 1/2 bike lengths to stop. Then I slip the clutch.

ka5ysy... when I mentioned sliping the clutch to the dealership, they said to release the clutch and then pull it in then when I slowed to let out the clutch again. I'm guessing... is that clutch modulation? I tried what I thought the dealership was talking about. While going slow, my speed would decay so I would let out the clutch and give the bike some gas then pull in the clutch and coast until the speed began to decay then again let out on the clutch and again more gas.
I don't like using this method because it destablizes the bike at slow speeds unless I release the clutch very slowly and then it is more like sliping the clutch.
Please explain the method of modulating a clutch.

I would be interested in finding a police department that uses BMWs. I got several questions for them.
Replacing a clutch is very costly, perhaps a thousand dollars.

Robert

[Mollygrubber]

"Modulating" a clutch is slipping it to achieve a specific result, either to slow the bike down, speed it up, or maintain a steady velocity at low speed (my words, my opinion).

You pretty much have to slip it sometimes, that's a given. Normal usage is not what I was concerned about - failure or premature wear under 'normal' conditions would be a warrany issue (or warranty fight, depending on how BMW was feeling that day I suppose).

What I'm concerned about is two 8 hour days of fairly intense low speed maneuvers. I read somewhere (can't find it, damn) a statement from BMW that riders of our bikes should try and get the clutch out as soon as possible when launching. I guess I'll have to keep the speed up! Fun!

[Motorcycle_Girl]

Slow speed in parking lots, driveways etc are normal parts of riding. Personally I would not want to spend a two day intensive slow speed course on my R1200R. I periodically hit an empty parking lot and do some slow speed practice on my bike but only for a few minutes just to keep my skills sharp.

Even when I had my Nighthawk I would not mess around for too long doing the slow stuff either. Being air cooled you need to be going at a decent speed to allow the engine to cool as well. Just another thing to consider if you decide to do the course.

(I have no problem doing that with the bikes at the college where I teach - but they have wet clutches and are not so sensitive to the abuse - given that they are used for rider training we expect to have to fix stuff on them all the time)

I look forward to hearing about what you end up learning if you end up taking the course.

I am taking an Advanced Rider Training course this June...I can't wait

Celeste

[Toby6938]

Peter
The Feb '10 issue of MCN addressed just that problem in the article 'Police Bikes Evaluated, Pt.2'. With the RT they use 'clutch and throttle' and with the Kaws they use 'clutch, brake and throttle'.

Toby

[ka5ysy]

Mollygrubber.... ....
I don't like using this method because it destablizes the bike at slow speeds unless I release the clutch very slowly and then it is more like sliping the clutch.
Please explain the method of modulating a clutch.

Robert

Robert... the typical method is to pull in the clutch and slow to the minimal speed you require, then gently and very lightly touch the rear brake lever while easing the clutch in and out (yes, it is slipping the clutch against the preload on the rear brake!). If you do this properly, and with your eyes focused on the horizon you can keep the bike upright by quickly easing out the clutch, very slightly, if it feels unstable. It amounts to "pulsing" the clutch a bit to keep the rear wheel driving and holding the bike up. It takes a bit of practice but works quite well when you get a feel for where your friction zone is. I practice this all the time at stoplights to see how long I can slowly move without putting a foot down.

A really fun thing to do is have a "slow race" like the police competitions. Simply lay out a 50 foot (or whatever) course for two bikes, and the winner is the one who finishes last. That will teach you how to modulate the clutch, throttle and brake to win!!.

Another fun thing is to lay out a random course with cones and play follow the leader. The lead bike chooses the course path in the cones. The trailing bike follows and must follow the exact path of the leader. First bike to hit a cone, put a food down, or drop a bike loses. If the following bike fails to duplicate the leaders course, he loses.

Oh... NEVER, EVER touch the front brake when you are doing this or you will have an asphaltic encounter faster than you can read this line.

[Lost Rider]

I have smelled my clutch quite a few times when climbing steep, rough, and loose mountain trails, or trying to get out of sand and mud... cant say what it really did to the bike, but I smelled it something strong numerous times. I can't see how what they do ( i've seen what the crazy japanese motocops do in those drills) being harder on the bike than my dual sport riding.
Still going strong...

YRMV

I bet none of you would ever buy my bike! not that I'd get rid of it...

[ka5ysy]

I bet none of you would ever buy my bike! not that I'd get rid of it...

So does this mean your affair with the F800 is over with ? Has the RR forgiven you ????

[Mollygrubber]

Thanks for all the carefully considered responses, folks.

I'm going for it!

Peter

[websterize]

It amounts to "pulsing" the clutch a bit to keep the rear wheel driving and holding the bike up. It takes a bit of practice but works quite well when you get a feel for where your friction zone is. I practice this all the time at stoplights to see how long I can slowly move without putting a foot down.

I play this game, too.

[Mollygrubber]

I actually like being behind big trucks in heavy traffic for this reason- they do the same thing. Not the usual cager response (rabbit then brakes, repeat endlessly). But everywhere else, I avoid them like herpes.

[icecave]

I highly recommend taking the "police" training classes using someone else bike like the school's bike. Dropping and picking up a bike is good practice. This is all about handling a bike at slow speeds and not leaning the bike, you'll become accustom to steering lock to lock, managing the brake, throttle and clutch. Its near impossible to master the many "tests" without dropping the bike a few times, between the cones, going too slow, missing your classmates in the figure 8s, fatigue, and not turning your head, its real easy to tip over at less < 5 MPH.

[Mollygrubber]

I'd like to use someone else's bike, but the point is to get good on mine...

And I do have very nice SW Motech crash guards...

Plus, a couple of dings give it character...

[icecave]

FYI, I went to this course: http://northwest-motorcycle.com/

[ka5ysy]

How to do it :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhyqopFCUO8

http://www.ocregister.com/video/?videoId=44035599001

[mogu83]

I have a few riding friends that are motor cops (I have a Valkyrie and sometimes ride with the cruiser crowd), and occasionally stop to watch them practice. The local force uses Harleys and the ones they use to practice are really beat up. If it starts to fall over they just get off and let it go, then walk over and get another one. They can do all sorts of amazing things at low speeds in a parking lot but surprisingly enough they do not practice high speed riding. A couple I ride with can drag their floorboards and make a u-turn in a parking space, but they can't pick a line through a turn at speed.

[Mollygrubber]

A couple I ride with can drag their floorboards and make a u-turn in a parking space, but they can't pick a line through a turn at speed.

My goal is to be proficient at both. Track days are also planned in my future...