My spline shaft failed today

[wncbmw]

Having restrained from posted on this, I will now make the general comments I always make on similar threads.

First, are BMWs as reliable as the bikes in the 60s and 70s? The answer is likely no. But then, it is much easier to built a reliable 50 HP, 5-speed, with almost no electronics, no fuel injection and certainly no power-assisted brakes or ABS. I still contend the percentage of failures is likely pretty small. No consolation when it happens to you!

Second, BMWs of that era also had their problems! Memory is a funny thing. You only remember the good stuff after a while!

Third, no manufacturer makes a 100% reliable machine. Yes, a chain won't have a final drive failure but there are a multitude of issues other brands have, even the rock-solid Hondas. Just visit other forums and see.

Now there is nothing wrong with the F800ST or other F-series bikes. I know plenty of folks who have made the switch and might do so myself one day. But for now my '02 Roadster with 54K on the clock is still my favorite bike of the 5 BMWs I have had.

Keep in mind, this comes from a guy who had to replace the FD bearing also!

[fj_pastor]

Doug,


Sorry for the problem ...

[bransan]

Did you happen to take any pics?

Just a couple for reference.
These splines look great at 41000 mi!

Negligible wear on the clutch disc.

Looks pretty funny all tore down.

[chibbert]

that last pic looks like Johnny Five

[dgates]

I talked to a local BMW mechanic this morning to pick his brain a bit about what to do with my R1150R with the blown spline shaft.
I had the bike listed on the BMWMOA site for $3500 and no response. He said that was too much and if I got $2500 I would be doing good. I changed the ad to "$2500 OBO".
He offered me $1000 for it over the phone if it was "clean". He said he would do the repair and resell.
He could do the repair for me for about $1500.
I could do the repair myself, but don't have the time or space.
I could part it out, but again, no time or space.
Right now, I am just listing it as is $2500 OBO and I took the items I added on and listed for sale such as the aftermarket shock, shorter paralever torque arm, K&N air filter, etc... I sold my touring wind screen and low seat, but really took it in the shorts because I underestimated the shipping cost.

[zeke]

Just a thought, if the mechanic was planning to repair for $1500 and resell why not ask him to fix it, on the side for that price.
Then you can sell it as a fully functional bike, at the going rate. You would recover your cost of the repair in the sale.
Just a thought, might be off the mark, but figured I'd throw it out there.

[Ol' Jeffers]

Gotta say I agree with Zeke. When repaired, you'll then have a bike on the road and if you still want to
part with it you'll get a much, much better price if it's all okey dokey!

[awagnon]

Gotta say I agree with Zeke. When repaired, you'll then have a bike on the road and if you still want to
part with it you'll get a much, much better price if it's all okey dokey!

The splines on my RT failed without warning at 42,000 miles. Repaired them myself for about $800. I then thought about selling the bike, but in all honesty, my conscious bothered me because I knew the splines would almost certainly fail again after the next 40,000 miles. Sure enough, I looked at them at 20,000 miles and there is already significant wear on the new splines. Also, the wear probably isn't linear and will increase in rate as the "slop" in the spline interface increases.

So, the moral to the story is, if you repair the bike and then sell it, will you tell the buyer that it is a lemon and will be an expense down the road for them?

For what it's worth, my friend's 2004 R1150R ate its splines at 23,000 miles. It happens.

[challey]

By way of comparison, I had no takers for my '03 with 28k at $2,900 when I put it up for sale during the winter. The bike had had a wire harness meltdown but I had already replaced the failed harness (though I had not completed reassembling the bike). I can understand a buyer's hesitancy however: Even though my bike ran flawlessly right up to the point that the harness shorted, and although it has always been well-maintained, I couldn't offer any assurances that it would run well - or even at all - with the new harness.

In this case, I've held on to the bike and plan to get it back in running condition early this summer (work conflicts and family illnesses have consumed nearly all of my weekends over the past 12 months). I'm confident that there will be no recurrence in the wire harness problem: It could easily have been prevented had I known of the potential problem and the SB that BMW issued to dealers about preventing it, however I still plan to sell the bike since my confidence in BMW engineering, manufacturing and QC is nearly non-existant. That lack of confidence may be unreasonable but I know that it will gnaw on me (there are just too many catastrophic R-bike problems, both confirmed and anecdotal) and given the Motrrad's lack of candor on the subject, I simply am not comfortable with BMW vehicles anymore. I will however disclose the harness replacement to any potential buyer - that's only fair - and accept that this means that the selling price will need to be discounted.

Charlie

[b12bandit]

By way of comparison, I had no takers for my '03 with 28k at $2,900 when I put it up for sale during the winter. The bike had had a wire harness meltdown but I had already replaced the failed harness (though I had not completed reassembling the bike). I can understand a buyer's hesitancy however: Even though my bike ran flawlessly right up to the point that the harness shorted, and although it has always been well-maintained, I couldn't offer any assurances that it would run well - or even at all - with the new harness.

In this case, I've held on to the bike and plan to get it back in running condition early this summer (work conflicts and family illnesses have consumed nearly all of my weekends over the past 12 months). I'm confident that there will be no recurrence in the wire harness problem: It could easily have been prevented had I known of the potential problem and the SB that BMW issued to dealers about preventing it, however I still plan to sell the bike since my confidence in BMW engineering, manufacturing and QC is nearly non-existant. That lack of confidence may be unreasonable but I know that it will gnaw on me (there are just too many catastrophic R-bike problems, both confirmed and anecdotal) and given the Motrrad's lack of candor on the subject, I simply am not comfortable with BMW vehicles anymore. I will however disclose the harness replacement to any potential buyer - that's only fair - and accept that this means that the selling price will need to be discounted.

Charlie

Me too. Sadly, I just don't trust my bike anymore. I'm planning a trip to Morocco early next year and I was really looking forward to taking my 1150R. Now I'm not so sure and would prefer to trade for a belt drive 800ST or ANYTHING Japanese.

[combatcarry]

Sorry about your bike having troubles.

IMO you shouldn't take less than $2000. For $2800 +/- and some elbow grease someone out there would have a great bike. If I hadn't just bought a R1100R I'd be extremely interested in your bike around the $2000 range. I'd actually feel really good about spending that kind of money for a well maintained bike with an up-front owner disclosing the spline failure.

Is this problem less or more common on the R1100R?

Edit: One other thing. You will love the belt drive. I have ridden two separate Harleys for about 60k miles and never replaced a single belt.

[awagnon]

"Is this problem less or more common on the R1100R?"


I've not heard of the splines failing excessively on R1100XX bikes. In a survey on BMW Sport Touring, the problem was most common on 2002 1150RT's (which I have) and then got progressively less each year for some reason. Had nothing to do with mileage, except it occurred between 20,000 and 40,000 miles. ( Usually when the bike went out of warranty. ) If you made it to 50,000 miles, you were probably out of the woods. It seemed to involve all models of 1150XX bikes. On my way to a national MOA rally, I asked every 1150RT owner I met if they had spline problems. I would guess about 15% said yes. At the rally, at an oilhead tech session, they asked the same question and I would bet it was closer to 20%, but that isn't an unbiased population since they were there for answers.

[johnnyjs1]

Sorry to hear about the bike, same thing happened to mine, 04 Rockster, with 12k. Got it fixed, didnt trust it anymore, and sold it, got $6200 for it last year, but still lost my @ss, had close to $8500 into it with all the accessories, and paying for the repair . I miss it for the long distance rides, but couldnt be happier with the SuperDuke for all around awesomeness

[dgates]

Well, she is gone. Sold her last night with the fried spline shaft.
I have a clear conscious in that obviously the buyer knows what is wrong with the bike and has a plan to fix it. The buyer knows the history of the spline shafts with these bikes in that he has been here on this site and read through this particular thread (hi Dale).
He is getting a great deal in my opinion especially if he does the work himself. He will be into a great bike for under $4k whether he pays a mechanic or does the work himself.
I am sad to see her go ,but I feel good about the sale knowing that the new owner will get her back on the road where she belongs, right Dale? There are many, many more mile left in her.
Now, I am moving on looking ahead to my new F800ST and the adventures she may bring (along with a whole new set of problems, false neutrals, phantom stalling issues, fuels pumps and sensors, deteroriating platic body panels...)
Wouldn't have it anyother way. Hondas are boring
I'll be sticking around here adding my .02 in once in while if I think it would help.
Take care all...
Doug

[Rex R.]

Hi everyone,

I may have joined the club this past weekend. I'm trying to figure out what happened inside my machine. (It only has 20,000 mi on it)

I was stopped in traffic, and when the light was about to turn green, I threw the bike into first and heard a horrible metallic grinding noise. The bike starts and runs fine, but when I pull the clutch in, I hear this grinding sound (not very loud; you have to listen for it), and then if I try putting it into gear (either first or second) it gets really loud. If I let the clutch out, the bike will actually move, but of course I won't try riding it like that.

Does this sound like the spline shaft? Clutch? Something else?

Thanks for any help you guys can offer.

[sjbmw]

Dammit. I'm sorry.

I got 27k on my 04. I have done some heavy loads for long hauls.

Should I be racing for a trade in now?

How come K bikes in this year range don't have these problems?

[rdsmith3]

I'm going through a similar thought process. I've got 40K on mine.

Also, for a number of reasons, I have not been riding as much this year.

[iowabeakster]

Rex,

Sorry you are having trouble. It certainly could be the clutch splines. It might not be, though. Normally, the bike will lose all motive force when the clutch splines strip out. If the clutch can be let out, in gear, and bike held motionless (yes, it will grind)... the splines would certainly be the likely problem. The bike might try to move with much less force than normal with stripped splines, as there could be a small amount of friction from the remnants of the splines grinding on each other. But if the bike moves forward as usual, then you are looking at a different problem.

Bob and Herb,

I've been having those thoughts since we first started seeing this issue occur with some regularity.

Look at the pictures (above) that Bransan posted. Your splines may be just as perfect as his. Cyclerob, inspected his...looked great too. I've seen others who have inspected and seen no wear at all. Getting rid of a perfectly good bike (presumably one that you really like) might be a mistake.

There is only one way to know... they need to be inspected. 27K or 40K, you guys should have many good years left in those bikes. I plan on opening up mine in the near future (end of summer probably). My bike is at 21K now. I realize that DIY spline inspection is not a good choice for everybody.

My bike has been well maintained. As long as I don't have a spline issue, this bike is going to do me well for a long, long time (at least another 60K miles). It's been paid off for a long time. I really like the bike. It is my cheapest (long term) motorcycle option at this point... by far. I'm just not in a financial situation to trade bikes on whim, or fear.

Even if I paid a professional to do it, it would still be my cheapest (long term) motorcycle option. Of course, that is assuming that my bike does not have an spline issue. If it does have this spline problem, I'll know it. I won't get stranded. And I'll be back on a Honda by next summer.

If you guys can afford to swap bikes without much pain in the wallet...why not???... I'm jealous... Myself, I need to have proof that my bike has a problem.

[boxermania]

Not to alarm anyone, but if you are planning on buying a 2002 to 2004 R variant make sure you exercise due diligence and inquire about the bike's history, specially what mods/recalls have been performed.

With the VIN any dealer can give you recall history, service records are not shared by the dealers, only the servicing dealer will have any pertinent records.

Clutch spline failures were sporadic a few years back, nowadays they are more like a crap shoot. If interested do a search on the topic, I've written extensively on the topic.

[rdsmith3]

My bike has been well maintained. As long as I don't have a spline issue, this bike is going to do me well for a long, long time (at least another 60K miles). It's been paid off for a long time. I really like the bike. It is my cheapest (long term) motorcycle option at this point... by far. I'm just not in a financial situation to trade bikes on whim, or fear.

Even if I paid a professional to do it, it would still be my cheapest (long term) motorcycle option. Of course, that is assuming that my bike does not have an spline issue. If it does have this spline problem, I'll know it. I won't get stranded. And I'll be back on a Honda by next summer.

If you guys can afford to swap bikes without much pain in the wallet...why not???... I'm jealous... Myself, I need to have proof that my bike has a problem.

No, it is not an easy financial decision for me. To be honest, a motorcycle is hard to justify from a pure financial perspective. I have a large family to support; two are in high school now which means soon two will be in college at the same time. The motorcycle is paid for, and I do a lot of the maintenance myself, so costs are fairly low right now.

For me, the choice would be sell the bike now, as is (I don't want to see the splines), or wait and take my chances. If I wait, and I experience the failure, then I would just be selling parts, at a loss compared to selling the bike now. OTOH, if I keep the bike, I may get many miles and years of enjoyment out of it.