Oil pressure and temperature gauge location

[johnvw]

Hi to All,
I am considering installing an oil pressure and oil temperature gauge, via the original oil pressure switch port (above and to the right of the oil sight glass ). I will still maintain the original pressure switch ( for CANBUS ).
Effectively the three sensors will be monitoring the same oil location.

Can it be confirmed that the original oil pressure port does see FULL line pressure.

From this same port is the oil ( at this location ) before or after the cooler. If before the cooler any idea about maximum temperature as the current bar graph display monitors after the cooler.

R1200R 2012 DOHC
I look forward to your comments and thank you in advance.
Regards
John
ps What really amazes me is that I can not get this information form the gauge supplies or BMW sensor suppliers.

[ammolab]

Temp sender will be at the end of a static column of oil if run off that location. Will that ever give you the temp of the oil either circulating or in the sump?

Why not just get a temp sender to replace your sump drain plug? That is the oil that your oil pick up is going to pump through the block. Max temp should run 210 to 270F.

[jkhomes]

My R1200R has an oil temp display next to the "remaining fuel estimate." I don't know how many degrees each bar is, and it doesn't bother me not to know as long as it stays in the satisfactory range.

[David R]

My R1200R has an oil temp display next to the "remaining fuel estimate." I don't know how many degrees each bar is, and it doesn't bother me not to know as long as it stays in the satisfactory range.

Same with my 2012. It has never been up to 3/4. The bike never overheats like my R1100RT did. One yeare and 24000 miles. It runs at 4 bars or 1/2. ONCE in DC it got up to 6 bars for a minute, still one short of 3/4 hot.

I do understand you wanting a gauge. I am more of a just ride the bike kind of guy.

David

[johnvw]

Thank you to All,
Ammolad, yes that column of oil ( for oil temp) was always going to be a concern. I am of the understanding that the oil temp bar graph is monitoring oil after circulation through the oil radiator ( cooler). The oil pressure port ( I hope ) is dynamic and the oil temp should be hotter ( ie prior to circulation through the radiator).
The current oil temp position is more difficult to access. The current oil pressure port is a more suitable location, albeit awkward. I am mindful of an air lock also.
I did not think it would be this difficult to get clarification of the addition of these items, either not an adventurous lot OR out riding as I should be.
Regards
John

[ammolab]

The spot of the OEM oil pressure sender is somewhat space limited....hard to mount the original switch, a new senser for a gauge, and a temp sender right there. The VW guys buy an oil line threaded for the block that has a metal block on the end for the original oil pressure switch and your new gauge sender. You mount this line/block allong the frame. Trouble is...I have not found this tap line threaded for the 1200R block or I would mount this for pressure gauge and use a sump drain plug for oil temp.

Let us know if you come up with a solution.

[johnvw]

Dear Ammolad,
When I started this I soon realised that the space adjacent the oil pressure switch was very limited.
I am a little niggled with the lack of information available, even from the switch suppliers ( in regard to thread size and pitch).
At present I am trying to source banjo type fitting so as to control the orientation.
***30 years ago I would have made these fittings myself, but those days are gone.
At this time my alternative is to connect the oil switch fitting to a female coupling, then connect a tube fitting. This gives me axial control for any disassembly. From the tube fitting I would run tubing under or past the spark plug position, just opposite to the oil pressure port position. This location gives me lots of alternatives for the current oil pressure switch, the new oil pressure switch and the new oil temp switch.
Unfortunately this gives me a long column of 'dead oil', hot oil ( outside the circulation path). Although not in the oil circulation zone, I believe this oil will be hotter as it has not passed through the oil cooler and therefore ( with much luck), by convection/radiation may have some influence on the 'dead oil' with respect to the oil temperature gauge.
All sound good in principle, what really works is something else.
I think I mentioned an air lock before.
I think I will have to keep all the new assembly just below the level of the oil pressure port. Hopefully this will allow for any air bubbles to escape after I complete an oil change. The oil captured in this new assembly may unfortunately never drain.
Some things I still have to consider but it would be nice to have some first hand advice from the Forum techs, even to the point that what I was attempting was all BS.
It just keeps the grey matter churning for which I am still grateful.
Regards
John

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

John, If you're looking for another opinion, I can always offer that
Your thoughts for the oil pressure gauge are fine, and will work. The oil temp gauge in a dead line will offer no more information than the current dash bar graph. The temp you get will not be that of the oil circulating in the engine. If you want real info on oil temp, I would suggest you make a sensor to go in place of the oil drain plug.

For both of these items, it will be interesting to see what the numbers are. But once you see them, the novelty will go away quickly. There is nothing you can do about either the pressure or the temp when you're on a ride. So you need to think about the 'why bother' concept.

[David R]

I disagree a little. My RT would over heat if I was sitting on an expressway waiting for traffic. If I shut the bike off for just a few minutes it would cool right off.

I only did this once in my camhead in Washington DC. It was only at 6 bars and only for a minute. Not even up to 3/4 hot.

There is NO oil pressure light on MY dash or information display at all.

David

[ammolab]

Remote bung for your pressure sender and OEM switch fine...no way temp will read anything informative from there.

Look at this VW Set up and note "not for temp sender". It is M10 at the block...I think you need M12 at the block tap in.

http://store.42draftdesigns.com/VW-Oil- ... p_314.html

[johnvw]

Hi to All,
Many thanks for the replies. I feel I am not dead in the water just yet.
1) I am happy gaining access to the oil pressure switch port for the the current switch and the new pressure gauge sensor.
I have seen 12mm x 1.5 as to the oil pressure thread ( but yet to be confirmed ).
**Lots of banjo fittings for 10mm ( bum).

2) I had indicated to Dakota Digital that I intended to jockey onto the original oil temperature switch. They indicated that I must use their sensor.
I realise the sensor will/may be different ( internally), but the oil temperature gauge will get a signal ( albeit representative ). I am not sure how the temperature sensor works, I assume some sort of millivolt readout which the gauge interprets.
It would be really interesting if there was a millivolt reading and the original and Dakota sensor were similar in full scale 'deflection', I think I may be happy with that.
I would prefer not to have the oil temperature sensor mounted in the sump plug.
Can it be confirmed that the oil in the sump has gone through the cooler and is 'cold'.
I appreciate the input, just frustrated at the lack of information available.
Regards
John

[johnvw]

Just another thought.
I have given away the idea of placing the temperature sensor near the oil pressure port.
But
It appears that the oil temperature sensor is resistance related. What would really happen if I piggybacked the wires from the Dakota gauge to the original BMW temperature sensor ( ie two wires would go to ground and the other two wires, one to CANBUS and the other to the Dakota gauge. Effectively I would be sensing what the BMW sensor is sensing.
If the oil temperature was 100C, that is what CANBUS would read, Dakota would see this same resistance measurement but ( I am sure) would record this differently, say 80C.
All the readings would be relative, high CANBUS, high gauge ( just not accurate).
Now if both sensors were placed in boiling water and resistance measurement taken ( assuming linear and not logarithmic) a better idea of accuracy would be indicated.
And a little bit of single resistor electronic buggery may make things very interesting.

Any ideas or problems with CANBUS about taking that second sensor wire to the gauge from the original BMW temperature sensor.
Regards John

[David R]

In order to measure resistance, the aftermarket gauge would have to put out some kind of signal. This will confuse canbus.

David

[ammolab]

The oil that is going to lubricate your engine is in the sump.

The temperature you want to monitor is just that...the sump, no? My BMW M coupe has it's OEM oil temp sender in the bottom of the sump. Works fine.

[deilenberger]

In order to measure resistance, the aftermarket gauge would have to put out some kind of signal. This will confuse canbus.

David

I'll expand on this a bit.. this type of resistance based oil temperature sensor uses a voltage across the sensor. One side in, one side out. The input may be 12V, or perhaps not since it's connecting to the ZFE/and/display. Adding a second readout to the same sensor will at the very best offset the factory display reading, at the worst blow out the circuitry in the ZFE or the display. That could be quite expensive to fix.

A suggestion.. how about getting a GS-911, which reads the temperature in degrees, and simply calibrate the factory display. So many bars = XXXF sort of thing. Somewhere I've seen some of those numbers on the Interwebz..

For me - with 75,000 miles on my R12R - I don't get concerned about it. My bike has never gotten close to the top extended hash-mark. Use a quality synthetic oil that can take higher temperatures (look for the "ASH Point" rating - where the oil starts to carbonize) and forgeddaboutit.

[Woland]

For me - with 75,000 miles on my R12R - I don't get concerned about it. My bike has never gotten close to the top extended hash-mark. Use a quality synthetic oil that can take higher temperatures (look for the "ASH Point" rating - where the oil starts to carbonize) and forgeddaboutit.

+1.

During 90000km's on my '07 overheating has yet to be a problem, and even if it ever were to become one I don't see how a second oil temp sensor would give me any useful information that I don't already have.

Spend the time and energy riding instead

[johnvw]

O/K lads I am always open to suggestions and I really thank you for your comments.
Ammolad ; I am of the understanding that the oil in the sump has been through the oil radiator cooler and is colder than the operating temp oil. The current oil temp is not in or near the sump, whether it is measuring the same oil 'sump' temp is to be confirmed.

David R and deilenberger ; Yes the last thing I wish to do is dingle around with the CANBUS. I was hoping the sensor was delivering a resistance measurement, not voltage, and I could isolate it from the CANBUS. Unfortunately the CANBUS is the great unknown, and best left that way.

The suggestion about using the GS-911 to determine the 'actual' oil temperature per bar. Do you mean by 'calibrate the display' that you physically are aware of the temperature that each bar represents or alternatively is that electric signal (from the CANBUS), which represents each displayed oil temp bar is now going to digital gauge, requiring calibration.
Thank you for your assistance, I do understand that this must be driving you all mad. I just hate the thought that one GIVES UP.
Regards
John

[ammolab]

O/K lads I am always open to suggestions and I really thank you for your comments.
Ammolad ; I am of the understanding that the oil in the sump has been through the oil radiator cooler and is colder than the operating temp oil. The current oil temp is not in or near the sump, whether it is measuring the same oil 'sump' temp is to be confirmed.
John

I have no idea what you mean by "Through the oil cooler and is colder than the operating oil temp"....

The oil in the sump when through the oil cooler if present, or not through a cooler if not so equipped, is the oil that the pump is going to pick up and pump through the engine. This is the oil that you want to monitor as you do not want the sump oil to enter circulation already TOO HOT to be a satisfactory lubricant, and you do not want the sump oil to be so hot that it breaks down chemically.

Oil throughout the engine will be many different temps, main bearings, rod bearings, valve train, cylinder walls, etc will all have different oil temps at different operating situations....you can not place a temp sensor at any one position in the engine and get an "oil operating temperature" for the lubicating system as a whole. You want a spot to monitor the health of your oil, etc? If you can not get the spot right at the oil pump outlet ( ideal ), go for the oil pump intake... That is ths SUMP.

Do you have to have Dakota Digital? They seem to have limited sensors. Look at VDO gauges. They have many temp sensors in about any metric thread you may need. I have put VDO oil pressure and temp gauges on two of my BMW bikes, an old R50/5 and my K75.

[johnvw]

Dear ammolab
I am fast running out of option. Too dicey to use the oil temp sensor on top of the engine for fear of trouble with the CANBUS.
Choosing to monitor the sump, what options are available, drain plug or banjo style fitting after exit from the oil radiator.

I will look at the VDO gauges also.
Regards
John

[ammolab]

I wanted to mount gauges on my R1200R....never got past the sensor mount for pressure.

See how good VDO gauges look on my K75C