Why is it that Americans.....

[rdsmith3]

Gord,

Now you're talking!

Anarchy in the U.K.
God Save the Queen

[Biff's R]

Hey Dallara,
So off we went, he got his brand new shirt, we went off and found our seats and slowly the ground filled around us with everyone in their nice shiney red shirts. Our problem? My son was sitting in his nice new shiney navy and yellow shirt.

How was I to know that they'd be selling tickets to put us in the 'wrong end'!

Si

What teams?

What are the differences between Rugby League, and Rugby Union?

[Pat]

I might be humored by euphemisms, colloquialisms, and slang when knowingly used in a mocking fashion......

To justify speaking poorly can be likened to justifying "Ebonics." Is it any wonder why the English language is as butchered as it is today.

I only wish that I had paid attention in school and/or supplemented my education by attending College. I care about the way I speak, but there are occasions when I simply don't know any better.
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I don't think it's funny,
and I hang my head in shame for my superiors and other "educated" folk who speak poorly.

With every passing day, I have increasingly less faith in our future and in America being saved from itself. Those responsible, have indeed been successful in their mission to dumb US down.

[Gord]

With every passing day, I have increasingly less faith in our future and in America being saved from itself. Those responsible, have indeed been successful in their mission to dumb US down.

I was fortunate enough to have Allan Bloom as one of my Political Science profs during university. He wrote a great book that was published in 1987 titled The Closing Of The American Mind: How Higher Education Has Failed Democracy and Impoverished The Souls of Today's Students. It was a bit of a tough read, and I certainly didn't agree with everything in it, but it was thought provoking.

A few of the reviews from Amazon.com:

From Publishers Weekly
Plato said that music was a barbaric art form, and Bloom, translator of Plato's Republic, charges that rock 'n' roll's sole attraction is a "barbaric appeal to sexual desire." This University of Chicago professor claims that racial segregation among today's students is largely due to the fact that "blacks have become blacks" and stick together. He brands Margaret Mead as a "sexual adventurer" whose call for cultural diversity betrayed her indifference to American ideals embodied in th Declaration of Independence. Marred by the author's biases, this jeremiad laments the decay of the humanities, the decline of the family and students' spiritual rootlessness and unconnectedness to traditions. Bloom traces what he sees as as an antiEnlightenment attitude in our society that dates back to Rousseau. He calls for a "Great Books" educational program that would teach students the unity of the sciences, social sciences and arts.
Copyright 1987 Reed Business Information, Inc.

From Library Journal
Bloom is angry about college students tolerant of everything, they cannot appreciate the virtues of Lockean democracy and often abandon the great questions about God and man. Meanwhile, the humanities are like "a refugee camp where all the geniuses driven out of their jobs and countries . . . are idling." The reason is partly relativism in the social sciences but largely German philosophers since Nietzsche, especially Heidegger, who "put philosophy at the service of German culture." Bloom's case about the humanities and German philosophy deserves an ear, but his students from "the twenty or thirty best U.S. universities" are nothing like my recent American students, who pursue the old questions with vim and vigor. Perhaps they do not belong to Bloom's elite.

I contrast what my kids are learning today compared to my time in high school. I learned how to learn. I learned how to think. I learned how to solve problems. I learned how to be independent. I learned how to handle failure as well as success. And I learned this by being challenged to do things I didn't always want to - like read Shakespeare, Plato, The Federalist Papers, Mein Kampf and to take courses I didn't really want to: Physics, Sociology. I see too much today where it is easy for kids to avoid having to do the work - why read the book when I can watch the movie (MacBeth for example)? Why learn how to add columns of numbers or calculate COSINE when I can use a calculator? And do we fail kids anymore? Or hold them accountable for underachieving? Is education to focused on turning out job ready skills rather than good citizens?

[NoRRmad]

Is education to focused on turning out job ready skills rather than good citizens?

Absolutely. Turning out good citizens is the parents' job.

[Pat]

Gord wrote:
"Is education to(o) focused on turning out job ready skills rather than good citizens?"

NoRRmad wrote:
Absolutely. Turning out good citizens is the parents' job.

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Hell, new parents these days know nothing of parenting skills, let alone how to be a "good citizen".......

These things are no longer learned at home. The working father (or absent father) rarely cares, and the working mother (or self righteous new age "modern woman") is too busy doing what she damn well pleases.

School unfortunately is taught by "those who couldn't", poisoned by the teachings of overly liberal professors who themselves know little of parenting and model citizenship. So don't expect school to pick up where parents can't........

Who does this leave to teach parenting and/or participation in community?

SOMEBODY, give me reason not to be so cynical. TRY!

[NoRRmad]

Hell, new parents these days know nothing of parenting skills, let alone how to be a "good citizen".......

Parents these days were brought up by families with both parents working, too. This is the second (or third) generation of them.

These things are no longer learned at home. The working father (or absent father) rarely cares, and the working mother (or self righteous new age "modern woman") is too busy doing what she damn well pleases.

(Often working.)

School unfortunately is taught by "those who couldn't", poisoned by the teachings of overly liberal professors who themselves know little of parenting and model citizenship. So don't expect school to pick up where parents can't........

Schools can't pick up where parents don't. People would never agree on the precepts of citizenship that should be taught in schools. A school's relationship with a kid isn't appropriate to teach that stuff. It is a subject that must be left to the parents.

Who does this leave to teach parenting and/or participation in community?

It leaves the parents. If they both have to work in order to afford the stuff they think they need, then perhaps they don't need so much stuff. Is that SUV really as important as a polite kid with good bonds with his family?

SOMEBODY, give me reason not to be so cynical. TRY!

Sit in your yard with kittens in your lap and watch the sunset. It's nice.

[Pat]

Darn..... you had to go there.

MY kittens were/are wild when I adopted them, though Cleo and Patra love me, they won't allow me to pet them, let alone sit in my lap.

Kitties, sunrise, riding buddies, and sunsets. Life is good.
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WHAT? THOSE DANM KIDS ACROSS THE STREET RAISING HELL AGAIN WHILE DAD'S WORKING SWING-SHIFT AND MOM WORKING LATE!!!! Last night, the cops brought the daughter home drunk...... They sure have nice cars and a decent landscape though.

[Simon D]

Hi Jeff, the home team (where we should have been sitting) was Wimbledon. The "reds" were Liverpool. No-one gave us any real hassle but it spoiled it for my son, who was about 12 at the time and was looking forward to being part of the home team thing.
Never occured to me where to sit as where I had come from a Barry Sheene fan would sit in with the Kenny Roberts fans and they would buy him a beer in the lunch break.
One of the things I love about motorcycling, it's one of the very few things that will unite people of all ages, classes, incomes,ethnic origins, religious beliefs etc. All able to sit and talk (or a better word "enthuse") motorcycling in all it's varied facets and generally get along. Sometimes we may not aggree with a fellow motorcycle enthusiast but we can normally just rub along fine together.
Look at this board- we've got Doctors, Surgeons, Auto dealers, Mechanics, Office workers (as Bruce Brown said "anyone and everyone") and very rarely is there a cross word spoken.
It's a damn shame that more of our "world Leaders" aren't Bikers, then we could all work together and achieve something worthwhile!
The difference between Rugby League and Union?
Sorry Jeff, haven't got a clue. I spent my formative years buying beers for Sheene fans!
Si

[jonothan]

One of the things I love about motorcycling, it's one of the very few things that will unite people of all ages, classes, incomes,ethnic origins, religious beliefs etc. All able to sit and talk (or a better word "enthuse") motorcycling in all it's varied facets and generally get along. Sometimes we may not aggree with a fellow motorcycle enthusiast but we can normally just rub along fine together.....It's a damn shame that more of our "world Leaders" aren't Bikers, then we could all work together and achieve something worthwhile!

Amen to that, Simon!

The difference between Rugby League and Rugby Union is in the rules. Something to do with the number of fouls (6) before a scrummage in League. Plus some other minor differences.

J

[darthrider]

Simon D wrote:
One of the things I love about motorcycling, it's one of the very few things that will unite people of all ages, classes, incomes,ethnic origins, religious beliefs etc. All able to sit and talk (or a better word "enthuse") motorcycling in all it's varied facets and generally get along. Sometimes we may not aggree with a fellow motorcycle enthusiast but we can normally just rub along fine together.....It's a damn shame that more of our "world Leaders" aren't Bikers, then we could all work together and achieve something worthwhile!

Man, ain't it the truth!?
But...I self-exiled myself from The Playhouse a while back after everything seemed to go nuts with name calling, a lot of ill-feelings and what looked like plain old hatred. I found I was "participating" in all that and didn't like any of it, especially my part.
So I quit "Playing" but continued to monitor on occassion to see what some of the people I respect were saying.
Now it seems one of our U.S. members is back and just imploded again in a shower of sparks peppered with hatred and accusations of treason.
And another U.S. member has returned to play his games of trying to humiliate and ridicule others with his, um..."Superior Intellect."

My exile is now complete and I will no longer even read what is there...I'd rather be riding my motorcycle! Or even just be thinking about it.

Which brings me (at last) to my point...It must be the motorcycles themselves and not the motorcycle riders that cause the bridging of all those gaps mentioned above. I would probably enjoy riding - and discussing motorcycles - with both those guys. But I can not/will not tolerate what they say and how they say it on other issues.

Or maybe, hopefully, it is the *combination* of bikes and their riders that eliminates the diversity. Sadly, the common bond of "Motorcycling" alone may not be enough.

[Simon D]

Ah Dave, I've never ventured into the playhouse even though I assume I could as I've now paid up my fees.
Truth is I have so much fun out here with you guys that I would hate to see it spoilt by the behaviour you mention.
Problem is, even in this great passtime of ours, that is so enriched by the presence of arch enthusiasts like yourself, gather enough people in one place and inevitably a couple of twats will show up!
Si

[Gord]

Is education to focused on turning out job ready skills rather than good citizens?

Absolutely. Turning out good citizens is the parents' job.

Agreed that it is the parents' job. But it is also the responsibility of our education system to support the parents by assisting in the teaching of ethics, values, and interpersonal skills - not just the mechanical skills necessary to perform a job.

Parents who don't do their job create problems for teachers. And teachers who don't do their job create problems for parents.

It is a symbiotic relationship in my opinion.

[darthrider]

Thanks Simon, I know what you mean!
Gord - Last week I saw a news item that many U.S. colleges are now having classes for graduating seniors in etiquette and basic manners!
It seems their grads were having a hard time getting hired with their lack of manners.
They say the courses are helping.
How sad...

[Lance1150]

Well I'm an American, have lived in California all my life, except for brief exits....

I say 'a quarter to', or 3:45.

I say 'I'll have..."

I wouldn't say I 'need', I'd say 'I'll have'

I'd 'make' a sandwich, not fix one.


Like most generalizations, it's often generally NOT accurate.

[Biff's R]

Thanks Simon and jonathon.

[Pat]

I'm an Air Force Brat raised both on & off the base in:
New Mexico, Germany, Flordia, England, Texas, and California..... living in Northern, Central, and Southern California since '68.....

I answer, " it's fifteen minutes until...", or "a quarter to..."

I respond by saying, "May I please have..."

I would NEVER be so impolite as to say, "I need...", nor would I make my wait-person feel subordinate by stating, "I'll have...".

I would "make" myself a sandwhich, but with all the fix'ens!

"Warsh" and "babbo" was used by my mom, and it wasn't until my I was corrected by my girlfriend that I knew not to say "hoover" rather than "hover".....

[jonothan]

Like most generalizations, it's often generally NOT accurate.

No, Lance, you're quite right, because most Americans I know don't use these expressions but a few I've met do. Just as there are similar expressions in use over here.

This really stemmed from our friendship with an American family from West Virginia. We were on a cruise out of Port Canaveral some years ago, and in the dining room, we were seated with this family; father, mother and two teenage daughters, from WV. The friendship grew and they came to visit us the following year. They had never been abroad before. Their reaction to Europe, and more specifically to the UK, was a revelation.

We took them to York for the day. Mediaeval buldings, still in daily use as shops and restaurants and offices, the wonderful Minster (the cathedral) and all the street artists and stuff. Tea at Betty's (the famous tea shop). It was Britain at it's very best, warm but not hot, blue skies and the daffodils along the grass around city walls were amazing. It was a day when you could look through the eyes of a visitor and feel oh so proud to be British. My wife turned to Martha, the mother, and asked if she was enjoying the day. Oh yes, she replied, it's just like Disneyworld.

She was the one who used most of the expressions I have quoted - except the "I need" at MacDonalds which we heard in Kissimmee in Florida.

We love our American friends. They love us too. They think we "cuss" far too much (and we probably do when the kids aren't around). They loved the fact that the kids spoke "with little British accents" - well, they would speak that way, wouldn't they? They hate our bacon and our coffee. They don't enjoy our fish and chips. They love our little cars. They watch TV here and cannot relate to some humour. They like the quality of the TV drama and the news programmes. They loved the Yorkshire Dales and walking but couldn't understand why we had so many public rights of way and footpaths. They loved the pubs but hated the beer. They were surprised just how good the food was in most pubs and restaurants.

They loved the slight British reserve - more so when the warmth of the average Brit shone through. They couldn't understand the binge-drinking culture of the young here. They couldn't believe how much petrol (gas) cost. They loved Scotland. They couldn't understand anyone up there but they liked it anyway. They though British drivers were very good, very fast but very courteous on the whole.

They loved our yellow Labrador, Amy, who was just like their own dog.

But most of all, they loved each other and their kids. Some things we will always share, and have in common.

It was, as I said, an exercise in trans-Atlantic relations. And great fun.

J

[BobFV1]

Jonathan -

Dangerous cultural stereotype going on in your post -

a family from West "by god" Virginia with two teenage daughters who

loved each other and their kids

Reminds me of the line in one of the National Lampoon movies in which the teenage daughter from out in the country says to her counterpart from the big city something like:

"Do you know how to French kiss? I do, my daddy taught me and he says I'm the best!"




Child Bride

A grown man forcibly marries a post-pubescent girl in this classic of hillbilly exploitation.
DVD Details:


FOR MATURE AUDIENCES ONLY
Run Time: 63 minutes
Number of Discs: 1
Originally Released in 1938
Black & White
No region encoding; For global distribution.
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Description by Oldies.com:

The most shocking and licentious exploitation film of the 1930s, Child Bride is an educational illustration of the illicit ills of child marriage. Down in Appalachia, on Thunderhead Mountain, inbred, uneducated girls, who have yet to ripen into womanhood, are swapped among coarse middle-aged men folk who wed and love their females between the ages of ten and fifteen. After about ten anguishing years of cooking, cleaning, childbearing and gratifying their husbands, these child brides are traditionally beaten to death and a newer, younger bride is taken. As a result of this vicious cycle, the people of Appalachia live in a sequestered world, out of step with modern values and customs.

Child Bride follows the sad story of Jennie Colton (Shirley Miles), forced into the grubby arms of Jake Bolby (Warner Richmond). Already on his second child bride, Jake is a hateful, heartless hillbilly who promises a grim life for sweet Jennie. Jennie's teenage boyfriend, Freddie Nulty (Bob Bollinger) is heartbroken that a much older man has robbed him of the girl he has been saving himself for. Freddie rallies with dwarf sidekick Angelo (Don Barrett, a pseudonym for iconic "little person" Angelo Rossitto) to stop Jennie from becoming Jake's child bride.

Presented here, uncut and unexpurgated is Child Bride in all its sleazy glory.

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[Simon D]

Say Johnathon, you don't work part time for the British Tourist Board at all?
Your mention of Kissimmee reminds me of the british couple touring Florida who couldn't work out how it should be pronounced: was it KISSimmee, or kissIMMee, or kissimmEE? Anyway they stopped for lunch at a roadside fast food joint and having ordered their meal said to the server "We don't know to pronounce the name of this place, could you tell us and say it slowly so we understand?" She looked at them slightly oddly then said:

"BUUURGER KIIING"!

Simon.