BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

Never thought about putting the sidestand down before I got off - is that in a MSF course.
Don't know how we ever learned to ride before MSF.

mogu83 wrote:Don't know how we ever learned to ride before MSF.

I don't really see the problem with rider training. Sure, people can learn to ride without it, but why the condescension?

mogu83 wrote:Never thought about putting the sidestand down before I got off - is that in a MSF course.
Don't know how we ever learned to ride before MSF.

I quite frankly don't know how we survived riding in the back of an open pickup truck, loaded guns on gun racks in the back of an unlocked pickup, mandatory seat belts (my old man used to REMOVE them or stuff them in the seat because they got all tangled, etc.), and who knows what else that just might be bad for "little johnny".

I took the MSF to get my license after not riding for quite some time. Some good instruction, but certainly not the end all when it comes to riding. Sometimes common sense (do we have that anymore?) tells us that there might just be more than one way to solve a problem.

I use the kill switch VERY little ... I use kick stand/key. If I forget and leave the key in the ignition (which I did last year and learned a VERY valuable lesson on making sure I turn the damn thing off!) its *my* fault.

Maybe someday I will really let everyone know how I feel about the nanny state in which we have become!

angellr wrote:I use the kill switch VERY little ... I use kick stand/key. If I forget and leave the key in the ignition (which I did last year and learned a VERY valuable lesson on making sure I turn the damn thing off!) its *my* fault.

Maybe someday I will really let everyone know how I feel about the nanny state in which we have become!

I'm frankly not sure how this became a rant about the nanny state. MSF teaches some things, and you are (as you have always been) free to use what you like and disregard what you don't. It's not like any of it is mandatory. It's not like the gubbmint is telling you that you have to use the kill switch. It's a philosophy that you're free to accept or ignore. I choose to accept it. You can choose otherwise. It's still a free country.

Nanny state indeed. More like a bunch of old codgers grousing that if they didn't need it, nobody else should either.

jess wrote:It works for me. On the few occasions that I've crashed or dropped a running bike, I hit the kill switch without even thinking about it.

Yep, what he said. Read about my embarassing experience. I'm an MSF monkey.

jess wrote: but why the condescension?

Because, just because MSF teaches it doesn't mean it's the only 'right' answer. A few years ago I was having a discussion, over lunch, with a young lady that introduced herself as an MSF instructor. In conversation I asked about holding the clutch in with the bike in gear at a red light, and told her I never did that. She admonished me, saying that I really needed to take the course because I was going to hurt myself. In further conversation, I found she had been riding for only four years and had barely 10K miles under her belt. At the time I had been riding for 47 years and usually put on over 5k (at Least) every year.

BTW: I have one son that rides and after I taught him the basics I insisted he take the beginner MSF course before he went out alone on one of my bikes.

mogu83 wrote:Because, just because MSF teaches it doesn't mean it's the only 'right' answer.

The corollary to this is that just because you disagree with it doesn't mean it's wrong. And the thing is, I never said it was right. I gave you the reasoning behind the instruction, and am quite content to let you decide for yourself whether it's worthwhile or not.

mogu83 wrote:A few years ago I was having a discussion, over lunch, with a young lady that introduced herself as an MSF instructor.

Drawing conclusions from a data point of one is... well, maybe not the best approach.

I still see no need for condescension toward the idea of rider training. I've seen plenty of young riders who could use some training. I've seen some old ones, too.

jess wrote:Nanny state indeed. More like a bunch of old codgers grousing that if they didn't need it, nobody else should either.

Had to look up 'grousing' and I think you misused it. More like a bunch of people with time on their hands (It's raining here) passing time. It's what old people do (except for websterize,I think he's at work). Seems like your overly sensitive or have a problem with old folk, that's too bad I've learned a lot from people older than me.
When I was young I had all the answers but now all I have is questions.

mogu83 wrote:Seems like your overly sensitive or have a problem with old folk, that's too bad I've learned a lot from people older than me.
When I was young I had all the answers but now all I have is questions.

Not at all. I've learned plenty of things from smart old guys.

mogu83 wrote:…(except for websterize,I think he's at work).

Hey, I'm on lunch, you grousing codger. See you at Square Root this year?

I had an issue with starting on my 07 R where I would turn the key on and nothing, no ignition , no starting. If I turned the key on and off a few times eventually it would happen . The dealer fixed it under warranty . They replaced the barrel in the key which had some sort of intermitent fault, been good ever since.

There was an antenna ring recall for 2006 bikes upto 09 I think. Check with your dealer. Cuts out the transmission to authorize starting the bike.

Rolando33 wrote: antenna ring recall

Thanks .. I'll ask the dealer.. Called dealer today and the dealer's mechanic's advice sounded alot like what I've read here. The mechanic said I should look for information or error messages from the computer, perhaps the clutch or kick stand sensor was bad. Also the was not an error code but they had diagnostic computers to look into different circuit and sensors.

Also about MSF ... not a big fan. An MSF instructor took then refunded the class cost after a days instruction. Said his insurance wouldn't cover me...bulsh!t. Another would not give me any instruction at all. To be fair a local Harley Dealer's MSF teacher said come on in and we will do the class.

This is the place where I got my start in riding and not MSF.
http://www.ridertraining101.com/index.html if in Louisiana .. check them out.
Also David Hough's book "Proficient Motorcycling"...
http://www.soundrider.com/archive/safet ... ycling.htm
it's full of good advice... great book.

Robert

My 07 R1200R had similar problems, wouldn't start. I went thru all the standard checks, and still wouldn't start. Dealer examined the bike and found no code problems, but a check on the cranking amps on the battery was slightly low, they suggested maybe a new battery will be the answer. So after $100.00 expenditure the bike started........Several weeks later the problem re-surfaced. The bike was returned to the dealer and without going into a long ordeal here, it wasn't going home until they figured it out. Long story short, there are two computers on board the R12R, both are located under the tank. The mechanic pulled the tank and ran test directly on the two computers, and found the one on the left to be defective. The computer was not in stock in the US and had to come from Germany, programmed precisely to the equipment my R12R was built with. Once installed the problem went away. My persistence at the dealer saved me nearly $800.00 for the computer, not to mention labor, as I was within days of going out of warranty.

The point here is just by hooking up the device to see if faults codes are available and they aren't doesn't not mean everything is ok.

Check the computers.......

73516
Northern Michigan the snow is beginning to leave
Be safe.

Thanks 73561 ... I might need this information.

Robert

The fog is clearing. Today I got on my bike turned on all the proper switches and kicked the kick stand up... and the bike didn't start... let out then pulled in the clutch and it STARTED. Happy Day... Don's advice and the dealers advice was right on. perfect...
Also the bike will start before the computer does all the checking. Also Hebert's BMW (the dealer) checked and found the antenna ring recall was done when the bike hit the Texas dealership in 08.'
It appears as if the sensor on the clutch is the problem... I'm set and thanks to everyone for their advice.

Robert

I do not know if this applies to you or if it has been mentioned yet, on page 132 of the owners manual it states the clutch is not to be pulled before the ignition is turned on, if you do it has to be released before you can try and start again but it can be re-pulled before the starter motor is engaged as long as the sequence is correct initially.

firstforward wrote:I do not know if this applies to you or if it has been mentioned yet, on page 132 of the owners manual it states the clutch is not to be pulled before the ignition is turned on, if you do it has to be released before you can try and start again but it can be re-pulled before the starter motor is engaged as long as the sequence is correct initially.

Thanks fastforward.....You are right..... that information is in there. But my owners manual has that information on page 126... my R is an 08.'

Robert

redwing wrote: Also about MSF ... not a big fan. An MSF instructor took then refunded the class cost after a days instruction. Said his insurance wouldn't cover me...bulsh!t. Another would not give me any instruction at all. To be fair a local Harley Dealer's MSF teacher said come on in and we will do the class

Robert

Hey Robert: What happened with that class? .. I am curious. What location? State class or some private thing? PM me if you prefer.

Doug

Happens to me. Try pressing again - harder.