F800ST vs R1200R

[r12gecko]

Post I made to a sister BMW forum...

http://f800riders.org/forum/showthread.php?t=49364

[Stef.]

Thanks for the interesting report! I test rode the F800ST only once and therefore can't really compare the bikes, but I personally did not like the handling of the F800ST at all. I guess though that one would have to ride the bike for longer than just a short test ride to be able to get a proper impression. I found the bike too light and I didn't like the looks and the sound of it. I also rode the 1200GSA and I have to say for me that bike won over the F800ST but not the R1200R. Just a personal first impression.
Stef.

[ShinySideUp]

Thanks for the thoughtful and thorough rundown on the two bikes.

Interestingly, my experience with an F800ST led to a different conclusion. After riding one on a Rob Beach motorcycle tour of the Alps, thinking it might be my next bike for riding on the job in San Francisco, and after 2000 miles and 10,000 hairpin turns, I NEVER got used to the handling. It always felt like the center of gravity was too high and I had to fight it into leaning over. The R12R always feels planted and willing to follow most any line I think about, without complaint. I'd say it's just about the easiest motorcycle to handle of any I've had, outside a scooter! Sure, the weight is noticeable at parking lot speeds, but anything over 10 mph, the low COG makes it sweet, for me.

And yes, there's power in the Rotax plant, but only at higher RPM's, which, isn't nearly so pleasant at the low-end torque of the R1200R. So outside magazine testing, in the real world, the useful power winner is the boxer. In passing in the Alps, I always felt I had to get the F800 near the redline. With the R12R, I just twist the throttle and go, or, if things look tight, kick it down a 1 or 2 gears and twist. Near redline, its engine accelerates the machine near the limits of my old brain to keep up with the changes!

I agree about the pain of the R12's hydraulic clutch in city traffic, but then I never rode the F800 all day long in a big city. Maybe I need a scooter too!

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

The F800 falling in to corners is likely the tires on that particular bike. I'll bet they were Metz Z6. Every bike I've had them on handles worse than with any other tire. Put on most any other tire and you'll get more neutral cornering. The F800 handles great with proper tires.

[r12gecko]

The F800 falling in to corners is likely the tires on that particular bike. I'll bet they were Metz Z6. Every bike I've had them on handles worse than with any other tire. Put on most any other tire and you'll get more neutral cornering. The F800 handles great with proper tires.

I started out on Michelin Pilot Roads on the F8 & then went to PR2's (nice tires). On the R12 I have Conti Road Attacks. You are right - I traded the bike with about 15,000 km on the PR2's (after a ride to the west coast & back) and there was a highway flat spot in the middle, though still tons of tread left. So, yes, that might have left the impression I walked away with. On new rubber on the track, the F8 was a terrific ride - it's a fair point you make.

While I scored the bikes a tie, my personal preference is still for the R12 - that's the bike I'm on and plan to stay on. I like it better. But stepping back and looking at things objectively, I'd have trouble saying to someone that one of these bikes is "better" than the other. They're just different bikes and the R12 happens to fit my interests and taste better right now. It is a lovely machine.

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

Gecko - My comment was referring to the post from ShinySideUp, who rented in Europe. He likely had Z6 tires on the rental bike and thus got a poor impression of what the bike is like with the right tires on it. I generally agreed with your impressions of the two bikes. After putting 20k miles on my F800ST, I'm back on a boxer and liking it

[Sander Abernathy]

Post I made to a sister BMW forum...

http://f800riders.org/forum/showthread.php?t=49364

Overall a good comparison of the two bikes. I wonder though if your butt dyno could use a recalibration. The R1200R is heavier as you indicated but it's less than 10% heavier (450 vs. 492 pounds ready to ride) and only about 7% heavier with a rider onboard. However, the R1200R has 28% more horsepower and 35% more torque. If the 800 is faster as you indicated there must be some kind of magic going on with the 800.

[blueviewlaguna]

Source: MC News:

http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/articles/2010JanIndex.pdf

F800ST 9/07 (test date) 79.0 (hp @ wheel) 55.4 (torque @ wheel) 478 (wet lb.) 145 (Top Speed) 3.91 (0-60) 10.14 (0-100) 12.08 (1/4 mile time) 110.39 (1/4 mile speed) 124.1 (60-0 stopping distance in feet)

R1200R 2/07 (test date) 97.7 (hp @ wheel) 76.5 (torque @ wheel) 511 wet lb.) 138 (Top Speed) 3.51 (0-60) 8.17 (0-100) 11.35 (1/4 mile time) 118.33 (1/4 mile speed) 119.0 (60-0 stopping distance in feet)

The R1200R generates acceleration numbers that are significantly better than the F800ST in the tests above. The top-end power is represented by the 1/4 mile speed - at 8 miles per hour, that is a large gap. At some point (I am guessing 130+ mph, the F800ST finally pulls ahead of the R1200R to a top speed of 145 mph vs. the R1200R's 138, but only due to it's naked (terrible) aerodynamics. As a data point for a mini-fairing on the R1200 platform, the R1200ST tested at 146 mph with 3 less hp and 523 lb. wet (12 lbs more) in the same publication.

[r12gecko]

Source: MC News:

http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/articles/2010JanIndex.pdf

F800ST 9/07 (test date) 79.0 (hp @ wheel) 55.4 (torque @ wheel) 478 (wet lb.) 145 (Top Speed) 3.91 (0-60) 10.14 (0-100) 12.08 (1/4 mile time) 110.39 (1/4 mile speed) 124.1 (60-0 stopping distance in feet)

R1200R 2/07 (test date) 97.7 (hp @ wheel) 76.5 (torque @ wheel) 511 wet lb.) 138 (Top Speed) 3.51 (0-60) 8.17 (0-100) 11.35 (1/4 mile time) 118.33 (1/4 mile speed) 119.0 (60-0 stopping distance in feet)

The R1200R generates acceleration numbers that are significantly better than the F800ST in the tests above. The top-end power is represented by the 1/4 mile speed - at 8 miles per hour, that is a large gap. At some point (I am guessing 130+ mph, the F800ST finally pulls ahead of the R1200R to a top speed of 145 mph vs. the R1200R's 138, but only due to it's naked (terrible) aerodynamics. As a data point for a mini-fairing on the R1200 platform, the R1200ST tested at 146 mph with 3 less hp and 523 lb. wet (12 lbs more) in the same publication.

Interesting. I'm going on seat of the pants feel & bike by bike the numbers would vary somewhat based on break in results, belt tension, luggage load & such. But it's hard to argue with the math above. Thanks for the post.

[Kieran R1200R]

The F800 falling in to corners is likely the tires on that particular bike. I'll bet they were Metz Z6. Every bike I've had them on handles worse than with any other tire. Put on most any other tire and you'll get more neutral cornering. The F800 handles great with proper tires.

At last someone see's these Z6 tyres the same way I do. They are the worst F**king tyres I have ever experienced. Absolute crap.
I only gave them about 250km from new before I changed them. They came on the bike from new. The flatest no feed back hardest compound peace of sh*t tyre. Did I mention I don't like them?

[r12gecko]

I added a note to my post on the other board re ABS. The F800 has seen some complaints about ABS. I experienced problems with it, but not all riders did. I've not even seen a hint of ABS issues on the R12.

Anyone have comments on that topic?