Cont'd problems with clutch master cyl

[macx]

After many long unsuccessful battles trying to bleed my clutch system, after changing clutch but NEVER breaking into the hydraulic system so shouldn't have needed it to start with, but it wouldn't release the clutch.

Finally found the mstr wasn't developing hydraulic pressure.

Found a 22k mile used one for under $40 so installed it.

I started by bleeding it at the banjo bolt - squeezing the lever and loosening it just enuf for fluid to push out, then tightening the bolt before releasing the lever, in an attempt to release any air trapped in that fitting. Then proceeded from there to do a conventional bleed thru the bleed hose.

Did some more bleeding, after 3 reservoirs full of fluid without air bubbles, figured it should be adequately bled.

It finally does release the clutch, but only the last 1/4" or so of lever travel, irregardless of the lever setting.

Shouldn't it start to release a lot sooner thru the lever travel? Like maybe just beyond 1/2 way or something like that?

I have absolutely no leaks anywhere in the system - hoses or the slave.

Still acts like it has a little air in the system.

And I've done all the suggested tricks - laying it over, bleeding from the bottom up with a syringe, tapping
the banjo bolt, and on and on and on.

I hate to break down and pay the dealer for something that should essentially be so simple.
I just have lost all confidence in that overly complex, touchy, problem prone, and expensive part of my bike!!

Thanks for any ideas.

[R1150Rclean]

Have you tried a vacuum style bleeder? You may have an air bubble that is stuck somewhere, maybe in the slave cylinder, could try bleeding the slave cylinder first (think there is a bleed port on it).

[macx]

Oh, yes, have done that, too.
Have tried all the tricks many kind folks have suggested, including
Have leaned the bike way over and raised the rear and left it overnite,
then bled it while leaning over,
Have tapped on the banjo fitting while bleeding,
Have tied the clutch handle back to the grip and left overnite,
Have bled it bottom up with a syringe,
Have slightly loosened the banjo bolt while pushing fluid thru
with the clutch lever.

I think it's pointing more and more to a bad clutch mstr cyl
even tho the bike only had 30k on it.

It works now, after having replacing with a used one with 22k miles,
altho the clutch doesn't release until the lever is within maybe 1/4" of the grip.

But it works and is consistent.

Thanks for asking, you never know when somebody might come up with
"the" idea that works on any particular bike.

[Rider Rick]

trade-in! ( continues doing the chicken dance in front of his new bike in an attempt to appease any clutch slave poltergeists who may be around)

[twindave]

1) Ghost ride the bike off a cliff.
2) Blame it on clutch spline failure.
3) Collect the insurance.
4) Buy a new bike.
5) Sue BMW Co. and the dealership for pain, suffering and shoddy manufacturing.

[TicTac50]

New http://www.beemerboneyard.com/21522335061n.html and the new copper crash-washers will fix the problem.

[CycleRob]

The DOT4 hydraulic clutch release system is almost stone simple. Very few moving parts. When it cannot be bled, continuing to bleed it without success means there is most likely either a damaged master cylinder (M/C) bore/seal (easy to see upon disassembly) or a zero or negative lever released freeplay clearance. I have even seen in a very neglected stored outside system, a scummy bacterial internal film that trapped lots of micro bubbles in the lines, slave and M/C piston bore. It took carb clean and brake clean sprays + high pressure blow gun shop air to get it right.

The biggest mistake in clutch and brake bleeding when trapped air stubbornly remains after lengthy bleeding is continually trying to push the air down-n-out thru the bleeder. That's like trying to keep a beach ball fully submerged in a swimming pool. It is so very easy to push or float them ALL up-n-out the M/C bleedback holes and here's how:

1--Tilt the bike and the handlebars so that air bubbles at the very bottom of the slave have a continuous uphill path to the M/C's bleedback holes. This step is absolutely vital for success and should include removal of the M/C or slave IF THE DESIRED BIKE ORIENTATION IS NOT POSSIBLE. Fortunately, The R1150R does not need that extra work if you utilize uneven ground and 2 people (for safety).
2--Set the lever "reach" adjustment wheel so the lever is furthest from the grip.
3--Squeeze the lever slowly to the grip and hold it 5 seconds, then release it quickly.
4--Squeeze the lever in/out quickly just enough to click the brakelight microswitch, or until pumping resistance is just felt, 10 times.
5--Repeat step 3 and 4 above at least 10 times.

Explanation of steps:
Step 2 increases the piston stroke, ensuring the most fluid displacement, providing a the largest bubble flushing reverse surge possible.
Step 3 moves that large volume slowly downward (not moving bubbles downward) with a short time for any pushed down bubbles to drift back upward slightly. The quick release quickly backflows the fluid and usually takes any trapped air bubbles with it a short distance upward.
Step 4 pushes any bubble masses that have now made it up to the M/C bore to be pushed up-n-out the bleedback holes.
Step 5 ensures that the many small "steps" are sufficient for the air bubbles to make the whole jerky trip harmlessly to the top airspace above the fluid in the reservoir.

If there is a loss of "out-lever" freeplay, you'll need to remove the lever to safely heat the body containing the small diameter recessed (screwdriver slotted) screw that is Red Loctited in place and then turn it outward for the needed freeplay.

If there aren't any defects or lever clearance maladjustment problems in the M/C, your clutch release should now work like new.

[macx]

That's a very good, well organized listing of all the requirements for successful bleeding!
I'm sure going to hang onto this.

I have laid the bike way over - on a 6x6 on the cyl guard - and tilted the bars as you suggest.

A guy on AdvRider suggested using a syringe to push fluid upwards which does make sense
as you relate in your beach ball example. In doing so, I ensured the complete fluid path
was oriented up. Bike leaned over on it's right side, rear wheel elevated to elevate the rear
of the slave, bars turned sharply to the right, etc etc.

Doing that I had easily seen the fluid coming up thru the holes, eventually with no bubbles..

But all that was with the old mc that I eventually found to be faulty.

Now that I've replaced it, it has been functioning consistenly.

But with my luck - - I'm bound to need all this info again some time.

I'm hanging onto my original faulty mc, when I have time some day I'll go thru the
thorough cleaning process you outline, install the rebuild kit, and keep as a spare
along with my good spare slave.

For now, I'm preparing to leave for a 3+ year job 1700 miles from home, and that's
one of the little projects that will have to remain till I return - hopefully at least
semi-retired.

But at least I've got an operable bike to take along. I'll be in Vegas, right in
the middle of all kinds of terriffic scenery - all the parks in Utah, Grand Canyon,
etc etc.

And with at least an occasional full 2 day weekend, away I go!!!

Thanks for all the help!!