Small Cars are Back!

Post by **yjleesvrr** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:05 pm

With gas prices hovering near 3 bucks a gallon, small economy cars such as the Honda Civic are gaining enormous popularity. One hears of $10k discounts being applied to full-size SUV's to move them off the lot while compact cars are practically snapped up as soon as they roll off the trailer.

To me, this is a good thing for preserving the planet's natural resources as well as for public safety. I'm honestly sick and tired of large-SUV drivers driving aggressively to intimidate everyone else on the road, like the jackass in the Ford Expedition that kept high-beaming and tailgating me while I was stuck behind a Greyhound bus last night on the New Jersey Turnpike. I thought to myself "Hope you enjoy your next fill-up, butt crevice."

big papa · Post by **big papa** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:10 pm

We have a civic for my wife's commute. But in our growing little town, so many people drive excursions and dually trucks that the town has mandated 1 ft wider parking spaces at all parking lots. So not only are the people getting fatter, so are our vehicles!

Post by **scottybooj** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:01 am

someone i know got into a collision with her Excursion and the driver of the other vehicle was killed. she went out and bought another Excursion, used.

on my bike and in my Toyota Prius, I really am wary of those behemoth SUVs with their multi-ton weight.

jonothan · Post by **jonothan** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:21 am

scottybooj wrote:someone i know got into a collision with her Excursion and the driver of the other vehicle was killed. she went out and bought another Excursion, used.

I expect she might argue that because she was in an SUV, it saved her life.

scottybooj wrote:on my bike and in my Toyota Prius, I really am wary of those behemoth SUVs with their multi-ton weight.

There is a developing anti 4x4 (SUV) feeling here in the UK, especially in London.

I agree - why drive a 4x4? What's the point of moving all that metal around. I drive a VW Beetle Diesel, by the way.

J

Post by **wncbmw** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:55 am

why drive a 4x4?

Hey, I drive a 4x4! It's a Subaru!

It seems to me, the bigger the vehicle, the more likely the driver is talking on the phone and not paying attention.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:08 am

With gas prices hovering near 3 bucks a gallon, small economy cars such as the Honda Civic are gaining enormous popularity. One hears of $10k discounts being applied to full-size SUV's to move them off the lot while compact cars are practically snapped up as soon as they roll off the trailer.

I love it. Kind of puts the lie to the whole "Rational Actor Paradigm", doesn't it!

A friend at work sold a paid for 2002 Expedition that he used to haul the cub scout troop and his family, about six thousand miles per year. Also used it to tow a boat. Got about $6k less for it than it was worth two months ago. Bought an Accord at MSRP, which is several thousand more than they were going for. Figure $10,000 penalty. Plus they take two cars to haul the scouts now.

Gas is $2.66/gallon this morning. He's gone from 14mpg to 27mpg. In a mere eight years, he'll have broken even! If the towing doesn't toast the tranny...

It's an advantage to have lived through the last 'Gas Crisis/We're All Gonna Die' episode in the seventies. Back when people were selling their Hemi 'Cudas and Boss Mustangs cheap and buying Ford Mavericks and Chevy Vegas for $4k!

Post by **rdsmith3** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:25 am

Guest,

If they take two cars to haul the cub scouts, aren't they back to 14 mpg for those trips?

One of our vehicles is a GMC Yukon XL with a 6.0 liter V8! We have four kids, another on the way (?), and a large dog. We also have lots of extended family members (cousins) and kids' friends. So much of the time, the Yukon is nearly full, and it makes sense to have it. It seats eight people very well, and also carries luggage for those eight people.

On the days when I take the motorcycle to work, my wife drives my old Audi A6, so we get double savings.

However, we pay the price when she is driving the Yukon solo to work. At least it runs well on the cheapest regular gas you can find.

BobFV1 · Post by **BobFV1** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:47 am

I have a VW Touareg which is not as big as an expedition, but it is heavier (I think) and the biggest gas hog, with the V8, I have ever owned. It hardly ever gets driven. I have the three bikes, two of which are street legal, and my wife/dauhter share a PT Cruiser. I like to have the beautiful "Panzer" in the garage for when I need the room or towing capacity, but if I drove it very much I would go to something more practical. Big, cheap, GM SUV's scare the heck out of me around here because they are within reach of the "NASCAR" crowd and other redneck idiots that can't drive.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:36 am

Big, cheap, GM SUV's scare the heck out of me around here because they are within reach of the "NASCAR" crowd and other redneck idiots that can't drive.

Yep. The "little people" should be happy in their little cars. Larger, safer vehicles should be reserved for those who have the means and breadth of experience to appreciate them.

Is that what you meant?

BobFV1 · Post by **BobFV1** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:39 am

Anonymous wrote:
Big, cheap, GM SUV's scare the heck out of me around here because they are within reach of the "NASCAR" crowd and other redneck idiots that can't drive.
Yep. The "little people" should be happy in their little cars. Larger, safer vehicles should be reserved for those who have the means and breadth of experience to appreciate them.

Is that what you meant?

Guest - Why yes, sir! That is exactly what I meant. You are a person of remarkable perspicacity!

camfarm · Post by **camfarm** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:37 am

I am looking for an AWD diesel. 40+ mpg; 110 or more HP/ton ratio.

The US pickups in 4x4 qualify but no overall value compared to my current gas powered 4x4 F150SC.

VW offers several FWD diesels in US but none AWD.

FGanger · Post by **FGanger** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:29 pm

My wife and I will be getting one of the new alternative fuel vehicles. It will tow my 8,000 lb. boat, not have a propensity to rollover, it will carry 9 passengers in safety, and will get better gas/diesel mileage than any current vehicle on the market. It will also cost under $30,000.

When will we be getting it, one may ask?

Just as soon as itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s invented would be my answer.

Post by **yjleesvrr** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:53 pm

My biggest beef with a lot of SUV owners/drivers is that they buy large vehicles to feel "safe". However, feeling "safe" often translates to driving in such a manner as to intimidate others on the road. I often see people in large pickup trucks and SUV's barreling down the highway at 90+ mph scarcely slowing down to let people get out of their way. The imbecile in the SUV behind me a couple nights ago didn't even wait for the bus in front of me to get out of the way. He hung off my bumper by a few feet with his headlights shining right at the back of my head and incessantly flashed his high beams. There is no excuse for this type of behavior, and is one likely to ultimately provoke someone to retaliating in an extreme manner.

I understand that people need trucks to haul things. I have a compact pickup myself and given its age am considering buying a full-sized one to haul bikes, mulch, and other home-owner oriented supplies. How one uses these things however is largely up to the sense of responsibility and maturity one possesses. My concern when I'm on the road is that motor vehicles when driven without proper care are as dangerous if not more so than firearms.

Post by **Boxer** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:13 pm

Yong, I know what you mean. Nothing bugs me more than to have someone flashing lights behind me to move over when I'm already going 15 or even 20 MPH over the limit. However...I usually give them the benefit of the doubt and try to get out of the way, just in case it's someone with an emergency situation...which is probably pretty rare.

It's just not worth the elevated BP to worry about the fools.

Post by **arkline** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:40 pm

My biggest beef with a lot of SUV owners/drivers is that they buy large vehicles to feel "safe". However, feeling "safe" often translates to driving in such a manner as to intimidate others on the road.

I just wish that some of these people were actually driving...

I commute every day, rain or shine, on the bike. The ride isn't long, but it is intense. Made more so by the fact that most Americans will report themselves as good drivers, but really aren't, not by a long shot. How good a driver can you be when that cell phone is stuck in your ear? Not to mention other distractions in the urban environment...

Post by **sshallen** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:00 pm

My biggest beef with a lot of SUV owners/drivers is that they buy large vehicles to feel "safe". However, feeling "safe" often translates to driving in such a manner as to intimidate others on the road.

I wonder if there is an actual correlation, other than anecdotal? Or does selective perception kick in... "Aw, look at that responsible gentleman in the Kia swerving in front of me at 20 over... I'll bet he's rushing to an emergency Habitat for Humanity volunteer board meeting. And what's with this psycho lady in the Escalade? She's following too close! Is she in a hurry to spend the money she embezzled from widows and orphans today?".

Could be regional... the scary drivers down here are in clapped-out 80's beater compact cars, driving as if the law doesn't apply to them. Which makes sense I guess... Tennessee seems to feel that someone in the country illegally still deserves a drivers license!!!

Post by **yjleesvrr** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:07 pm

First, let me say "welcome back" Sam.

I know people who think and drive this way in their large vehicles, sad to say. I've been a passenger in vehicles driven this way where the drivers even expressed their desire to intimidate Kias and Hondas by following right on their bumper so they could clearly read "Ford" and "GMC" backwards in their mirrors.

I'm not saying that getting behind the wheel of a large SUV will make everyone drive this way. Inherent in the thinking of getting a large SUV/truck when one generally does not need such size however is the thinking that they will survive a collision. I don't trust human nature enough to believe that all drivers will benignly operate their vehicles given such survivability when they're around small cars/motorcycles. As they say in their commercials, the reason I bought my BMW sedan was to avoid accidents, not get in one. There are some who apparently think they can flirt with getting into accidents because they themselves are not the ones to die in an accident. I have not compiled actual figures relating to my experience, but suffice it to say that I've experienced enough to be wary.

Post by **JCsman** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:49 pm

My (late) Uncle Joe had some thoughts on auto safety. In the 1960's he bemoaned the introduction of items like of padded dashboards and seatbelts. His theory is all that "safety crap" just makes people not pay attention to their driving. His proposal was to add a 6" spike to the steering column of every car. He believed that would soon weed out the drunks and careless drivers while minimizing harm to others.

His concept seemed crackpot to me then. Of course I didn't have the maturity, nor the wisdom of this board to show me Uncle Joe was right. Adding a few tons of sheetmetal to the shoulder belts, air bags, and other safety features apparently makes us totally oblivious to safety.

Bring on the spikes???????

Post by **Paper** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:31 pm

Edited, and moved on...

Post by **rph802** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:24 pm

Since I'm the only one in my household, I had to look for a kind of do it all vehicle. living in VT necessitates a 4X4 or AWD of some kind. Also need a weeks-worth-of-croveries hauler, lumber and Home Depot wagon and be able of taking a few friends skiing. The two labs require some room on trips. It would also be nice to have something cable of towing utility trailer or a bike trailer when I get one.

Subarus are great vehicles but could be roomier for the dogs and dont have the utiltiy in SUV I was loooking for

Excursion/Yukons etc are just too damn big for me. Opposite of the Subaru dilemna, as I dont require a third row or 10k lbs towing capacity.

Test drove the Escape. Wasnt reallllly unimpressed with the 4cy, the only model available with the required manual transmission. Kia and Hyundai not considered. Blazer has had some reliability and resale value issues to me.

Weather permitting (I dont mind riding home in the rain but need to look presentable when I get there) I use the R1100 as often as possible for commuting.

I found everthing I was looking for in the Nissan Xterra. Manual transmission, big but not huge, 5000# towing capacity, room for 5 and their stuff. Nissan reliabilty and holds it value reasonably well and built in Smyrna TN!! Havent done a lot of off roading with it, rather go out on the bike but it is quite the capable machine even stock. Minor suspension and tire modifications greatly enhance these abilities.

Nice road manners and can go most anywhere!! Love it!!

Craig